PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

OT: Why political discussions do not work on this forum

This is a response on the closed "OT: The Enemy Within" thread started by @LinearLineman. The thread was closed just when I started to join.
Here are my thoughts on political discussion on this forum and why they just don't work.
@LinearLineman has a probably a point in saying that this forum has not enough diversity of thought when closing the thread. Looking at the thread this looks true. I'm not sure if this is actual the case. I think the real reason why it doesn't work here is that people are just going to this forum to talk about iOS music and everything that comes with it. Apps, music hardware devices, music in general and of course have some fun. Of course there are a few contemporary ideology evangelists on this forum, but most aren't interested in conversion overhere. Because especially on the internet you find them everywhere and they seem inescapable. While there were in the past a few attempts the "politicize" this forum, most members started the walk away from this type of threads and they where thoughtfully closed by @Michael as soon as they were flagged.

Recently we saw efforts by @Michael and @LinearLineman to build respectful discussion on things they, and probably a lot of forum members care, but instead of keeping everything on topic you see the more political enthousiasts on this forum dominate the threads and getting their agenda's on the forefront, which ends in "orange man bad" or the opposite pov.
My idea is that you can discuss everything and respect and learn from others views as long as there is common ground, and not starting to become personal. If we talk about common ground we saw this in @Michael 's thread. Nobody denied the environmental problems only people had different solutions or gave their worldview.
Still I see this problem of the few evangelists that you find everywhere, so with this in mind it looks that this is not the right place for this type of discussions and people that want to can just go to other places on the net to voice their opinions. So let us put our polical differences aside and just enjoy this forum as long as it lasts.

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Comments

  • TL; DR - its is a good thing to keep politics off the forum here. Because: we are people

    I like the fact that we can all come together around a common delight in music and set aside differences, show some grace when each other’s politics slip out, and carry on. That is no small accomplishment, and overall it is going quite well here. Keep it up :)

  • I hear you, but do political discussions “work” on any kind of online forum? And what does that really mean? Personally, some people here really give me the creeps, but I won’t ignore them. It’s good for me to know what is out there, even if it causes me a bit of pain. I certainly don’t want this forum to be overtaken by issues beyond beyond music making, but there are bigger concerns that sometimes need to be expressed now and again. I think much of the discussion here is fairly thoughtful, exceptions aside.

  • @ALB said:
    I hear you, but do political discussions “work” on any kind of online forum? And what does that really mean? Personally, some people here really give me the creeps, but I won’t ignore them. It’s good for me to know what is out there, even if it causes me a bit of pain. I certainly don’t want this forum to be overtaken by issues beyond beyond music making, but there are bigger concerns that sometimes need to be expressed now and again. I think much of the discussion here is fairly thoughtful, exceptions aside.

    Good point. Most people look for confirmation bias except people who like trolling.

  • There are enough parts on the internet where politics can be discussed. Forums related to music do not need that kind of discussion. It usually just makes enemies out of people who probably have a lot in common and would get along very well otherwise.

  • Political discussions don't work here and on other forums not because of political topics, but rather because tribalism is at fault. This is inherent even in this forum when talking about which DAWs or apps we prefer. We become defensive of our team, and critical of the other teams. We could blame politics, but that divide has already shown itself even in discussions that are on topic for iOS song-making. We're all here trying to live, trying to make something of our lives, trying to make something of our music, and yes, if we could learn to respect each other's differences while working toward a common goal of progressing forward we might have better conversations overall. Maybe if we could start by acknowledging whether it be politics or our favorite apps, we're all a little bit right, and a little bit wrong. That might be a good starting point for open conversation.

  • @greengrocer, I tend to agree with you after my little social experiment. I was truly negatively moved by Mario's appeal for someone to murder a member of Congress and felt if people are unaware that Mario was parroting Trump's own technique and code, as Michael Cohen put it, they should realize that here is yet another example of the hatred being sown.

    However, as the conversation veered away from that one particular point I wondered if people here might have the emotional maturity to keep things from boiling over while still presenting a reasonable, fact based, argument from either side. I think we did pretty well if the standards are kept low as well. That the more vocal amongst us tend to be more liberal in our thinking seems to be the case. The pro Trump folks among us unfortunately, in my view, did not step up to the plate and the conversation was one sided and verifiable facts did not emerge from the right.

    I, for one, will not be posting any political topics in the foreseeable future. There simply was not enough benefit from it, IMO. But I appreciate what people said and the effort they made to remain civil, as in civilized.

  • edited May 9

    @LinearLineman

    Not sure how to phrase it exactly but I think Mario was making reference to something about late term abortions and an aledged quote or stance at one time from the politician. So to really wade into the mind of Mario would have involved a topic I doubt few would be willing to discuss here. I could be wrong though.

  • Yeah it’s probably best to keep the politics out of here! Most people have got an open mind to some degree but it’s so easy to slip into the tribalism on either side and then the name calling starts instead of actually discussing ideas.

    I come here to talk apps and music. There’s plenty of other places to get into fun stuff like Brexit, Trump and Gender Politics. :smile:

  • I don’t know why the hell we even allowed not one, but TWO political discussions on this forum in one week, onestarted by Michael, the very man who was quite adamant about keeping politics off this forum not long ago. I guess he’s changed his tune. Hopefully it will change back, because as we have seen, people will take a mile if you give them an inch.

    Look I get it, folks feel comfortable here, it is, after all, a nice little place. It’s starts from an innocent place of “gee I’d like to talk to my pals at the Audiobus forum about other stuff every now and then, why not, we’re all adults?” And then you realize that shockingly the people on the other side of the screen have different opinions on matters, and then everyone involved starts trying to prove how smart and “woke” they are, the threads balloon, somebody calls someone a name, and then daddy has to come clean up the mess.

    The fact is there ARE, TONS of places where this sort of thing is welcomed to be discussed on the internet. I’m sure r/politics would suffice for many, and not suffice for many. But, but, but muh friends on Audiobus. No. If it was about that, y’all would carry out these conversations in PMs, not shit up the forum with your oh so genius hot political take that no one has never heard before in their life. There’s a time and a place. I, for one, am perfectly happy to keep it about the music, and enjoy the wonderful little nuggets of personalities that shine through via those discussions.

    And frankly folks, it just looks bad. What’s a would be forum regular going to think when he just wants to know what an AUV3 is and comes across this stuff? Might not become a regular. BAD FOR BUSINESS

  • Coming late to the party here but yep, I tend to agree with the sentiment; I think this was a failed experiment, and I'm very disheartened by it. I for one felt an obligation to amplify the message of the latest UN report where I could, but probably should've immediately closed the thread after the initial post.

    We live and learn

  • No more political arguments.
    Go back to arguing over IAA obsolescence and the right to demand AU support.
    :D

  • Amen brother 😊

  • edited May 9

    @CracklePot said: back to arguing over IAA obsolescence and the right to demand AU support.

    who would argue about obsolete IAA? (smiling innocently) ^^
    you have been reading one of my rants again :D

  • I do not care for the political discussions here. I would personally be very happy to have no political posts on this forum. There are other venues as mentioned above. I come here for the music, apps, workflows, and camaraderie.

    Just my tuppence!

  • @greengrocer said: ... Nobody denied the environmental problems ...

    that's a progress I guess.

  • @LinearLineman has the power to close his own thread now. What are you going to do if Michael is sleep when someone ruins this one? :D :D :D

    In all seriousness I wish we could all be better about simply voicing our opinion without being inflammatory or trolling, but that’s a pipe dream. I think most everyone here is excellent, but we have a few who lose their senses on certain topics (and not just politics :D). But I really wonder why some let it drain their energy so much? Invest so much in arguing with someone who clearly is not interested in balance, discourse, or hearing from the other side. Let the trolls go without food and attention and they’ll eventually implode.

  • I am really saddened that the thread initiated by @Michael turned out that bad, because I share the same opinion about mass extinction. I did not have the chance to read @LinearLineman thread, wondering if it is still possible to access, really curious to know what happened there.
    The fact that there is no political discussions on this forum is the reason why it is such a nice place. Here we can discuss on topics that can unite us regardless of our political inclination or religion. In a way it is a really sad, like looking the other way to avoid seeing the beggar lying on the street... The day Mankind will be able to discuss those topics with respect and empathy, I believe that would be the first day of a new era, opening the door to a new world without greed, jealousy and conflicts. But seeing how history keeps repeating itself, leaves me wondering whether John Lennon's dream will remain just a dream.
    After all, any living organism spend most of their existence fighting for survival and maintaining their own biological structure. Maybe egocentrism is inherently structural and inevitable.
    Sorry for this off topic comment
    Peace to all, let's discuss and make music!

  • Please just keep it music related, thats why a lot of people like this forum. There's a lot of different backgrounds here and it promotes some good thought out views on what we all love, music. Let's keep it positive and focus on that, the world is shit enough everywhere else online, I like my quiet corner with friends here. :)

  • The best way to make ‘enemies’ is to discuss politics and/or beliefs/religion and it can and will easily get toxic based on the fact that when ‘arguments’ around the ‘topic’ get thin it’s easy to fall into the trap and blame person or ‘thing’ and that is when the discussion starts to get ugly and go downhill instead if staying constructive...

    What I’ve learned is that most need to learn to agree being able to disagree without jumping on the messenger...

    Some will agree some wont we’re after all individuals...

  • Some 18 people have contributed to this thread already. Despite all the views logged on the political thread I doubt as many commented throughout. At one stage about three-quarters of the way through I counted 10 actual posters I think. Glad that common sense has prevailed about this forum.
    But you don’t know until you do it.

  • edited May 9

    because we are here from different countries, even different continents... different social backgrounds, different habits, diferrent cultural and exonomical backgrounds, even different kinds of humour senses - we are too much different to have peacufel discussion about such toxic topic like politics...

    politics just rarely works on international forums.. we cannot often hold on discussion in polite mood about music apps, how we should do it with politics (or religion for example) ??

    Impossible.

  • Just music, tech talk only, no economics, no influences (could have political-religious-ethical connotations) good luck.

  • edited May 9

    The problem discussing emotive issues such as politics or religion via the Internet, is that we can’t see the person we’re talking to. As a result we miss out on the subtle nuances of physical communication - we can’t pick up signals and reactions to our own words, so can’t tell if the other person is offended, or getting upset, and they might not pick up that we’re saying something in a light hearted manner. We just see the words.

    I personally think the Internet, though wonderful in many ways, has caused a lot of the issues we face today due to the cold detachment of the medium.

    A few of my best friends here have completely opposite political views to mine, yet we can chew through them, and even Brexit, without falling out, because we can see the person we’re communicating with, and know them well enough to keep within the boundaries of friendship. We can laugh about our differences and celebrate them, rather than get angry with each other.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    The problem discussing emotive issues such as politics or religion via the Internet, is that we can’t see the person we’re talking to. As a result we miss out on the subtle nuances of physical communication - we can’t pick up signals and reactions to our own words, so can’t tell if the other person is offended, or getting upset, and they might not pick up that we’re saying something in a light hearted manner. We just see the words.

    I personally think the Internet, though wonderful in many ways, has caused a lot of the issues we face today due to the cold detachment of the medium.

    A few of my best friends here have completely opposite political views to mine, yet we can chew through them, and even Brexit, without falling out, because we can see the person we’re communicating with, and know them well enough to keep within the boundaries of friendship. We can laugh about our differences and celebrate them, rather than get angry with each other.

    In person, I think it depends on the people debating, if they can respect one another, sometimes they can lack this quality, which seems to be increasing I think.

  • edited May 9

    It actually works pretty well, me thinks.
    2 years ago it usually ended in name calling.
    Now we are having civilized discussions across oceans and mindsets. :)
    if that isnt progress I dont know what is. ;)

  • I agree with @Max23. There is some progress in that we don't resort to expletives. But the conversation was one sided, full of contempt (very hard to avoid for me as well) and not many participated. For me it was worth trying. If something substantive, either politically or just in how we humans can peacefully relate had developed I would have been in favor of an occasional extra curricular discussion. But, alas, that did not happen. As we are, and that is pretty good relative to the Mario's of the world, we best stick to music, and try to make that a common ground. Thanks to you all for your forbearance.

    I will now close this thread in a huff 😤😜😘

  • @LinearLineman ....not for long, I hope. I am missing your music already.

  • I teach politics, so the last thing I want to see on the Audiobus forum is thread after thread on politics; or, in fact, any thread on politics whatsoever. Let’s talk music, and music-related stuff, instead of pointlessly arguing the toss over this or that political event/process/issue. No matter how ‘consensual’ you might think your ideas are, someone is going to disagree, and them the problems start. I’ve already seen the word ‘troll’ mentioned a few times, which is indicative of the wider folly of attempting to discuss politics here. It’s a dead end.

  • edited May 9

    @jomudu, thanks. Fortunately, my music is better expressed than my politics. Here is the latest

    @audio_DT , indeed. But people seem to need to chime in and say the same thing over and over, as you can see in this thread. Whether political or apolitical we are mostly captives of our own egos. This forum is exceptional in its tolerance of egos (including mine).

  • try talking about iPad apps, IAA and audio latency on a forum for politics… That won’t work either :-)

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