OT: The Enemy Within

1356712

Comments

  • edited May 3

    @Daveypoo, yes, I read your comment about the decline of Rome and elaborated on it. History augmenting itself. We do agree, I believe. What did you think of the Ligeti? (I prefer mine al dente, actually)

    @AudioGus, I think I understand now. Mario's comment about assassinating a US Senator was what you were referring to. I explained why I found it shocking out of the context of a hate based website but randomly prevalent to a random viewer. In addition, it mimics exactly the formula of one in a particularly high spot. "Gee, it would be great if someone took care of this problem. Any volunteers?" Sound familiar?

    And I can state emphatically that there is no ban on politics on this forum as far as I know, and it is to its credit. Especially if bringing up a subject, like the acceptance of murder for political reasons becoming acceptable to more and more is political. It is that erosion between right and wrong, truth and falsehood, that concerns me. What I believe is not acceptable here is uncivil discourse. You can flag the comments you don't think are defensible, Gus. As far as I know, when @Michael sees a few he will shut down the thread. As to this particular thread, I think it will expire like a hurricane, having blown itself out like any other thread. And it will be a plus for this community because it did not devolve into name calling for once. Keep your fingers crossed. This is a tech forum, we all agree. However, Off Topic is the constitutional loophole our founder provided for our ability to make more of this community than meets the eye.

    I do not think we can put our heads in the sand just because we are tired of hearing about it. That is exactly the strategy in the autocrat's playbook. The ignore button is available to all here, or simply one's own ability to decide not to participate. You still have choices here.

  • I thought this forum was obviously primarily about music making with particular emphasis on ios .
    So, why think there is a need to discourse at length and hijack such a music forum on politics just because there is no ban? Especially when there are more suitable forum for this topic surely elsewhere.
    Why not stick to more relevant topics here - when you do
    I find are excellent.
    I think it is sad to have a need for a ignore button.

  • @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

  • @AudioGus said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

    he didnt dare to trash Bergman or Buñuel ;)

  • @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

    he didnt dare to trash Bergman or Buñuel ;)

    I don't know - I find the imagery and intent of Bergman's work pretentious and highly derivitave...

    🤪

  • edited May 3

    @Daveypoo said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

    he didnt dare to trash Bergman or Buñuel ;)

    I don't know - I find the imagery and intent of Bergman's work pretentious and highly derivitave...

    🤪

    really?
    derivative of whose work?
    must have been something I missed ;)

  • @Daveypoo said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

    he didnt dare to trash Bergman or Buñuel ;)

    I don't know - I find the imagery and intent of Bergman's work pretentious and highly derivitave...

    🤪

    I find it insists upon itself.

  • Yes, I would agree some topics should be avoided at all costs. Anything to do with racism, for example. Yet there was a relevant discussion of cultural misappropriation.

    I, too, would not like this to turn into a political forum and that, indeed, would be contrary to its purpose. However, people share many different things here. It is a technical forum, but a member sought empathy and fraternity here for a child having emotional problems and he, deservingly, got a lot of love and support back.

    I came from a feeling place when I wished to share my experience. And,for me, feeling is the overarching principle that binds all this together. Yes, people want to know about apps here, but we are ultimately considering the possibilities of music making and why we love to do it. The posts of Frank Zappa's music illustrate that. It was certainly not all political, but he was aware of music's function to be a stimulus for action, or a warning about society to its denizens.

    Political, I believe, means "about the city" and we use the term politics very widely. The politics of bees, the interpersonal politics of relationships, etc. In this case, and it is my personal desire, being a lonely old man living in a windowless room deep in the Casbah of Istanbul, that I seek this forum, as it is not possible in more girded fora like PianoWorld or TalkClassical, to be a true community of equals. A place where the amoeboid cellular wall can stretch to accommodate the occasional feeling needs of its members.

    The very nature of iOS users as a band of outliers, technical leap takers, rebels and free thinkers has informed me to expect more of the folks here. That, like a self aware computer, we can learn and grow in many directions from this experience. That we can "motor right along" as @AudioGus says, even when the conversation is a bit rocky. Look, we get in trouble discussing NS2! But it doesn't have to be this way. Learning here means learning there as well.

    Think of it as a social experiment in keeping our tempers and manners in place. Self awareness instead of knee jerk reactivity. Will this not help us even as creators? It certainly will help in the evenhanded discussion of technical issues, beloved applications and music in general. Is this the province of Audiob.us? Look, we even had a discussion about the favorites button. That was political. And, no, i don't believe the ignore option need be ignored. People do what they have to.

    Having the occasional off topic discussion about issues arising from a member's emotional or feeling reaction to events, as in this case, my horror at what is happening to the way people think about how to resolve perceived problems... with violence ... well, this can be discussed here, or ignored. Nothing of the intrinsic purpose of this place is damaged, if we can discuss it civilly without character defamation. How can this be a bad thing? Is it not a candle in the darkness if we can accomplish it?

  • edited May 3

    @Daveypoo
    fanny & Alexander is kind of the movie equivalent to in swanns world ( the beginning of À la recherche du temps perdu/In Search of Lost Time)
    I remember remembering ...
    its really charming & unique.

  • edited May 3

    My advice to the young (ie, not us), if there’s ever a chance to expound it, is to avoid the news. Avoid watching the news, reading the news, hearing the news. Avoid the whole news business and news industry. Or, if you feel you have to consume it, always consider what it really is – the news isn’t there to inform us and educate us. It’s there to scare us and feed an addiction to the side effects of anxiety and fear by wrapping it in information that disturbs us, makes us angry, makes us scared and never makes us healthily fulfilled or at least happy. The industry is so entrenched that it seems that we must coast our way through our days on a substrate of news and current affairs, yet all it is is an industry that seeks a feedstock of emotive information and processes it into fear and anxiety. It makes a lot of money doing that. You make no money out of the process. You’re the host and they are the parasite. The information parasite that sucks your mental well-being and leaves you unhealthy. The news industry is a commercialized parasitical information plague.

    (Apologies for not making that rhyme)

  • @u0421793 said:
    My advice to the young (ie, not us), if there’s ever a chance to expound it, is to avoid the news. Avoid watching the news, reading the news, hearing the news. Avoid the whole news business and news industry. Or, if you feel you have to consume it, always consider what it really is – the news isn’t there to inform us and educate us. It’s there to scare us and feed an addiction to the side effects of anxiety and fear by wrapping it in information that disturbs us, makes us angry, makes us scared and never makes us healthily fulfilled or at least happy. The industry is so entrenched that it seems that we must coast our way through our days on a substrate of news and current affairs, yet all it is is an industry that seeks a feedstock of emotive information and processes it into fear and anxiety. It makes a lot of money doing that. You make no money out of the process. You’re the host and they are the parasite. The information parasite that sucks your mental well-being and leaves you unhealthy. The news industry is a commercialized parasitical information plague.

    (Apologies for not making that rhyme)

    More and more as I get older, regardless of who is in the White House, I watch/listen to less news overall. Which fits your point entirely. There are news sources that are minimally biased (when reporting news), but it's just a downer, usually.

  • @Max23 said:

    @Daveypoo said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Max23 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    ...

    So random! ;)

    he didnt dare to trash Bergman or Buñuel ;)

    I don't know - I find the imagery and intent of Bergman's work pretentious and highly derivitave...

    🤪

    really?
    derivative of whose work?
    must have been something I missed ;)

    I'm just messing with you - weak attempt at a joke.

    Nothing to see here - please move along.

  • Reading "OT" threads is a voluntary act.

    Asking for an OT to be closed seems like something we should ignore.

    How is arguing over world political order different that debating the merits of NS2 and BM3?

    Both topics bring out some irritating comments but overall they help show the value of specific points of view and can influence our thinking.

  • @McD ..... Couldn’t agree more. It is just my interpretation of an OT discussion on a forum dedicated to IOS music conveys topics that are loosely associated to music making in general.
    I just find it hard to come to terms with regarding this forum as my goto when I want to get hooked onto the world political order.
    Never mind.
    Anyone up for a discussion on Brexit?

  • Well said McD. A geezer-grifter at the heart of sycophantism ,lollying around and until now really affecting ( no barriers,no health care philosophy) sweet fuck all. As is obvious IMHO capitalism appears to be the rock and as long as that remains and why wouldn’t it,governments are window dressing at this moment in time 2019 isn’t 1933.

  • Times change @AudioGus. And communities grow. @Michael suggests we be our best selves. I think we are doing a pretty good job on this thread. I cannot speak for Michael, but I suspect as long as things are civil (which they surprisingly have been here), he is okay about it. Why don’t you pm him and ask.

    And, frankly, it is OT and if it bothers you tune out. But don’t impose your viewpoint on others who don’t see it that way. And there seem to be quite a few interested in this who have made substantive comments. This is not like the Brexit thread where it devolved into bashing. This is pretty civilized, i’m thinking and good for the soul. Just my opinion, of course. Would you deny my right to speak it? I hope you do not take my question personally. You are entitled to your opinion, too. If you really feel you must do something about it I am sure you can think of something.

  • Dang it, @LinearLineman - stop prodding the sleeping bear!

    :wink:

  • edited May 3

    @Daveypoo, I have seen the enemy, and he is us. Actually, I think the bear is quite enjoying this. But I have had my say... for today.

  • Don’t think I am imposing my viewpoint at all. All I thought I had done was express my surprise to find such a topic raised in such detail on a music forum. Certainly not my place or intention to deny anyone’s right to say anything on this forum at all.

    No -one seems to find it odd so that is fine.

    I actually am stimulated with the subject of the thread. I just found it so unexpected to see such a subject discussed on a music forum.

    Actually, I was being a bit facetious/flippant about a discussion on Brexit. Didn’t realise that such a thread had been aired here.

    Guess I only need to focus on this forum to learn more about IOS music making.

  • @jomodu, I was not directing my comments at you at all. As you see, with the Brexit coincidence, almost everything is discussed here when someone feels the need to express hi or herself. . Especially in Off Topic. Brexit did start getting out of hand and I was the moderator who closed it. I would do the same here if folks started taking potshots at each other. But so long as people are polite, even if they are impassioned in their expression one way or the other, all is good IMO. There is a tremendous amount to learn here about iOS. You can do no wrong just focusing on that. The choice is yours,

  • edited May 3

    @LinearLineman said:
    Times change @AudioGus. And communities grow. @Michael suggests we be our best selves.
    I think we are doing a pretty good job on this thread. I cannot speak for Michael, but I suspect as long as things are civil (which they surprisingly have been here), he is okay about it. Why don’t you pm him and ask.

    And, frankly, it is OT and if it bothers you tune out. But don’t impose your viewpoint on others who don’t see it that way. And there seem to be quite a few interested in this who have made substantive comments. This is not like the Brexit thread where it devolved into bashing. This is pretty civilized, i’m thinking and good for the soul. Just my opinion, of course. Would you deny my right to speak it? I hope you do not take my question personally. You are entitled to your opinion, too. If you really feel you must do something about it I am sure you can think of something.

    Whether or not the thread is closed isn't really a big deal to me personally. It certainly doesn't bother me as far as simple content but some threads will naturally breed political discussion and heated or not it seemed like Michael's message was pretty clear. I only said it should be closed because he did start a thread that said 'politics unwelcome' and to 'avoid' it. We are guests at his place and should simply abide by what seemed to be his house rule. If he feels differently now that is more than fine by me but he is the only one who can say times have changed and the community has grown in a different direction.

  • I think we will have to agree to disagree @AudioGus. No hard feelings, I hope.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    I think we will have to agree to disagree @AudioGus. No hard feelings, I hope.

    No worries, I have pretty much zero emotional investment in this.

  • Well I'm emotionally invested and I'm HOPPING MAD!!!!!!

    Well, not really... just making sure we're all taking this thread as seriously as it needs to be, which is to say not at all.

    😁😁

  • Don't be a Sucka MC...

  • AudioGus, With respect the thread was ,is or could head into” Politics “ however I think Michael’s angle maybe not to curtail the “Philosophy of Politics”. In the same way the word religion is thrown around, arguing the pros &cons of particular beliefs instead of the “Philosophy of Religion”.and so this OT thread is interesting but if it disappears or closed then so be it.

  • edited May 4

    @Greenie said:
    AudioGus, With respect the thread was ,is or could head into” Politics “ however I think Michael’s angle maybe not to curtail the “Philosophy of Politics”. In the same way the word religion is thrown around, arguing the pros &cons of particular beliefs instead of the “Philosophy of Religion”.and so this OT thread is interesting but if it disappears or closed then so be it.

    Sure, works for me. Like I said, if Michael is fine with it then I am fine with it.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    My friends, I need to show you something and hope you will understand my intent is not to inflame, or even encourage heated debate. My intent is that we should all see and understand what is going on in the minds of many Americans (and all over the globe) these days more than ever.

    It has been so easy for me to attribute much of the current events in the US to the simple escalation of political combat (there are fine people on both sides, after all) and that they are events that can be controlled by the rule of law and the administration of a good dose of the US constitution. However, after today, I am really not so sure. I want to be able to comfort myself and say “everything will be alright” but today I am not so sure. I want to believe democratic institutions will hold and continue on in their flawed way to make the best of a bad situation and that we, as Americans, are citizens of the world and will always, in our hearts, strive to overcome the obstacles of the dark side of our natures. But today I am not so sure..

    I was watching FOX news to get their slant on Attorney General William Barr’s testimony before the Senate. Though it is personally disturbing, I try to inform myself as to the alternate reality that now exists in the minds of roughly a third of American voters. While listening I hit the comments and found this exchange about Jerry Nadler, US Congressman and Democratic leader of one of the committees trying to exert some oversight (as is their constitutional mandate) over the current administration.


    Johanna Roets
    Nadler with a face like that I'll stay in the water. looks like a frog.
    13 minutes ago

    Mario
    Too bad someone didn't decide to kill him at the time he was born. Oh well... Someone can just kill him now!
    Who volunteers for the job?

    I have read many a hateful comment but this one.... well, this is something quite special, is it not?
    There is nothing more for me to say except words matter and these speak for themselves. I only ask that your thoughts remain collegial and refrain from bashing any particular person or organization. Thank you.

    Even though this country is largely divided, I don’t hold politically to the left/right paradigm. I honestly believe that the problems we face put us all largely on very near the same side, when taking into consideration the evil and corruption that exists in high office. I don’t believe that the politicians are the ones who are truly calling the shots at the end of the day. According to sources I have a tendency to trust, those people who are truly running the show are such people as pedophiles and murderers. I won’t argue politics with my fellow Americans, because we face such great evil in high places. I believe to a large degree, we are being played against one another, to distract us from what is really going on behind closed doors.

This discussion has been closed.