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My thoughts on klevgrand’s stark.

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Comments

  • @CracklePot said:
    This thread is making me question my consideration of myself as a ‘guitar dude’.
    :D

    Many are called few are chosen

  • @Max23 said:

    its not mentioned on the website
    we talk privately since years ;)
    and I beta test his stuff

    Seriously Dude, this last week every time I post something I find you attempting to poke holes. I've been polite throughout but it's becoming more than a little tiresome.

    I didn't suggest that you didn't know the developer and I didn't suggest that Zeeon sounded bad, but let's not forget that this exchange of posts started with your dismissive remarks regarding Klevgrand and Softube.

    As I understood things Zeeon's filters ARE based on a what is commonly called a ZDF design but it seems odd that it's not mentioned on the website or on the App Store listing.

    With regard to analog phasers and flangers, part of the feedback path involves 'ladder' filters (made famous by Moog) and this is one of the reasons that Moog are also known for their Moogerfooger pedals which include phasers (sadly Moog recently announced that they're going to stop making Moogerfooger products).

    https://www.moogmusic.com/news/farewell-moogerfooger

    It's highly possible that the term 'zero-delay' in the Zeeon product description of the phaser was intended as some kind of shorthand for ZDF but it does seem odd to only highlight that design feature with regards to the phaser. And as mentioned earlier 'zero delay feedback' is only one aspect of modern virtual analog filter design.

  • @lukesleepwalker said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a £35 pedal than anything available on iOS:

    Into a Deluxe Reverb? Well, sure!

    I think you need to watch the video :) The £35 pedal DI-ed into an interface sounds better (warmer and fuller) than the Fender amp.

  • @audiobussy said:

    @CracklePot said:
    This thread is making me question my consideration of myself as a ‘guitar dude’.
    :D

    Many are called few are chosen

    And only one dons the KFC bucket
    ;)

  • I'll summarize this thread so far for those who are confused:

    STARK - Do you like the way the demos sound?

    YES - then go buy it and be happy about your purchase

    NO - don't buy it and be happy you saved $10 of disappointment

  • For me just about the only thing I miss is a tempo-sync option for the time-based effects...

  • @Daveypoo said:
    I'll summarize this thread so far for those who are confused:

    STARK - Do you like the way the demos sound?

    YES - then go buy it and be happy about your purchase

    NO - don't buy it and be happy you saved $10 of disappointment

    Let me poke a hole in that. I wasn't that impressed with the demos, took the plunge anyway, and am quite happy with the purchase after figuring out how to tweak it (bypass on the cabinet, etc).

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @McD : One doesn't need to spend $100's on ToneStack or Amplitubd or BIAD IAPs to have a high-quality rig.

    Can you explain what you mean that 4Pockets approach has been proven to work better than other approaches?

    As a business model selling individual FX Apps probably pulled in more cash than 4Pockets
    made with a (Guitar/Studio) Big Rack of Apps.

    Klevgrand was generally made and sold single purpose Apps and this Amp Sim stretches their model just a bit by emulation the 4 FX slots in a similar (if limited) style of the Amplitube, ToneStack models. And they just included the FX.

    FYI: Stark doesn't take a good input and make it thinner. It improves sounds going through it. It's just perceived to be thin for heavy guitar tones. For clean guitar tones it's probably worth pretty competitive with the other Apps. And I'll keep hammering home the essential point. It's an A-fucking-U-v-3 instance. It stands alone in this category. Getting all that feature set in an AUv3 form is a feat and it has crashed once on me. I split my guitar signal into 2 tracks and used 2 instances. That's probably good for setting up a rhythm and and solo instance and then trying in a BlueBoard for controls.

    I love this app and was sorry to see it loose the heat with a negative review. I thought ReAmp was a game changer for adding tone and this one is a game changer to add "room" along with tones... more tones that ReAmp has and for $10 you can't beat that. For $20 it will get more users when people start demo'ing it's impact on the usual synths, keyboards and GeoShred with the Distortion+ FX. I tried 4 of those and work up the cat across the room while wearing headphones. An insane noise I have never heard from IOS.

  • @richardyot said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a £35 pedal than anything available on iOS:

    Into a Deluxe Reverb? Well, sure!

    I think you need to watch the video :) The £35 pedal DI-ed into an interface sounds better (warmer and fuller) than the Fender amp.

    WHOOPSIES! I missed that it was a video. So, does he reveal which one is which? I owned a DRRI, and I'm guessing that B is the amp. I can also hear some telltale "DI" signs in A. But fwiw, I'd rather hear those two samples in a mix; I'm not sure that A would actually sound better in some mixes...

  • edited April 2019

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @richardyot said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a £35 pedal than anything available on iOS:

    Into a Deluxe Reverb? Well, sure!

    I think you need to watch the video :) The £35 pedal DI-ed into an interface sounds better (warmer and fuller) than the Fender amp.

    WHOOPSIES! I missed that it was a video. So, does he reveal which one is which? I owned a DRRI, and I'm guessing that B is the amp. I can also hear some telltale "DI" signs in A. But fwiw, I'd rather hear those two samples in a mix; I'm not sure that A would actually sound better in some mixes...

    Yes you got it right, A is the pedal, B is the amp (it's revealed in the YT comments). It's really close, but I prefer the pedal in this demo, and it sounds way better than any amp sim on iOS, which is my original point. Not particularly surprising since the pedal is an analogue preamp circuit, and it seems that even a cheap real circuit still sounds better than any iOS DSP.

    I bought the pedal on the strength of that demo and couldn't be happier. That cheap pedal and a TC Helicon Hall Of Fame 2 give me all the guitar tone I could want, and blow away even the very best iOS amp sims IMO. This is for a clean Galaxie 500 type of tone: Fender Twin Reverb on the cheap.

  • I've heard great things about the Joyo pedal; it really does sound great in that video. Thanks for the reminder on that pedal; agree it's better than any iOS sim.

  • @lukesleepwalker said:

    Let me poke a hole in that. I wasn't that impressed with the demos, took the plunge anyway, and am quite happy with the purchase after figuring out how to tweak it (bypass on the cabinet, etc).

    I'd go along with that. It was only on my second run at STARK when I knew how hyped the Amp models were in the lower mids that I made it work for my typical use cases. I was surprised just how much I had to cut the Bass and Mid in the Amp models to get where I wanted but overall it was $10 well spent.

  • McDMcD
    edited April 2019

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a (Joyo American stomp box) £35 pedal than anything available on iOS.

    Good tip. I bought one of each in the Joyo line: compressor, delay, chorus, phaser for less than the cost of 1 Boss pedal.

    Joyo is the Asian Behringer of musical electronics focused on the high-margin pedal board business. Stark is the Joyo of Amp Sim Apps: cheap and close enough for the
    most uses if you hate cables and want to just live in a mobile DAW.

    I'm waiting for someone to put out a GeoShred track processed by it. "Thin" is not a measurement... it's a comparison between 2 things. I want a Phat AUv3 Amp Sim at a reasonable price, Yonac! Bias! IK Megalomania! You gotta believe they are working on it, right?

  • After a few experiments, I'm back to Amp One. It's got the adjustments I was missing in Stark and it sounds great. BTW it's the only iOS Roland Chorus clone that does both the Juno and the Dimension D Chorus effects, and the only one that allows for fine adjustment of otherwise unavailable FX details.
    It's IAA but works great with AudioShare and DAWs.

  • @McD said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a (Joyo American stomp box) £35 pedal than anything available on iOS.

    Good tip. I bought one of each in the Joyo line: compressor, delay, chorus, phaser for less than the cost of 1 Boss pedal.

    Joyo is the Asian Behringer of musical electronics focused on the high-margin pedal board business. Stark is the Joyo of Amp Sim Apps: cheap and close enough for the
    most uses if you hate cables and want to just live in a mobile DAW.

    I'm waiting for someone to put out a GeoShred track processed by it. "Thin" is not a measurement... it's a comparison between 2 things. I want a Phat AUv3 Amp Sim at a reasonable price, Yonac! Bias! IK Megalomania! You gotta believe they are working on it, right?

    @McD said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a (Joyo American stomp box) £35 pedal than anything available on iOS.

    Good tip. I bought one of each in the Joyo line: compressor, delay, chorus, phaser for less than the cost of 1 Boss pedal.

    Joyo is the Asian Behringer of musical electronics focused on the high-margin pedal board business. Stark is the Joyo of Amp Sim Apps: cheap and close enough for the
    most uses if you hate cables and want to just live in a mobile DAW.

    I'm waiting for someone to put out a GeoShred track processed by it. "Thin" is not a measurement... it's a comparison between 2 things. I want a Phat AUv3 Amp Sim at a reasonable price, Yonac! Bias! IK Megalomania! You gotta believe they are working on it, right?

    @McD said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a (Joyo American stomp box) £35 pedal than anything available on iOS.

    Good tip. I bought one of each in the Joyo line: compressor, delay, chorus, phaser for less than the cost of 1 Boss pedal.

    Joyo is the Asian Behringer of musical electronics focused on the high-margin pedal board business. Stark is the Joyo of Amp Sim Apps: cheap and close enough for the
    most uses if you hate cables and want to just live in a mobile DAW.

    I'm waiting for someone to put out a GeoShred track processed by it. "Thin" is not a measurement... it's a comparison between 2 things. I want a Phat AUv3 Amp Sim at a reasonable price, Yonac! Bias! IK Megalomania! You gotta believe they are working on it, right?

    @McD said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a (Joyo American stomp box) £35 pedal than anything available on iOS.

    Good tip. I bought one of each in the Joyo line: compressor, delay, chorus, phaser for less than the cost of 1 Boss pedal.

    Joyo is the Asian Behringer of musical electronics focused on the high-margin pedal board business. Stark is the Joyo of Amp Sim Apps: cheap and close enough for the
    most uses if you hate cables and want to just live in a mobile DAW.

    I'm waiting for someone to put out a GeoShred track processed by it. "Thin" is not a measurement... it's a comparison between 2 things. I want a Phat AUv3 Amp Sim at a reasonable price, Yonac! Bias! IK Megalomania! You gotta believe they are working on it, right?

    They are all watching another one another trying to figure out what to charge for the AU or how to charge for it

  • edited April 2019

    @rs2000 said:
    BTW it's the only iOS Roland Chorus clone that does both the Juno and the Dimension D Chorus effects

    I like Amp One, it's really sad that it ended up as abandonware. But those Roland chorus effects are both Roland-ish in name only. Not saying they're rubbish but they never really did it for me with keys and synth timbres. They're probably as close as you can get with any standard option on iOS, without building something bespoke (I've got a few presets using AudioEffx modulated by LFO's in apeMatrix that work for me).

    The thing that's stopped me from using Amp One on a regular basis is that it doesn't do AB State Saving and the lack of latency reporting often caused timing problems for me. But I'm not viewing things through guitar player lenses and much as I'm happy to work with IAA only apps, I try and stick to those that have at least a few home comforts such as Ableton Link and State Saving.

    If Amp One were an AU, I'd be all over it again.

  • edited April 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @richardyot said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @richardyot said:
    IMO you can get a ton more great guitar tone from a £35 pedal than anything available on iOS:

    Into a Deluxe Reverb? Well, sure!

    I think you need to watch the video :) The £35 pedal DI-ed into an interface sounds better (warmer and fuller) than the Fender amp.

    Not really doing that amp justice IMO. Clearly very low volume where are any tube amp hasn't even started to do it's thing. Still, I find those pedals useful when I want to practice with cans... I have the Tech 21 versions (which joyo cloned.)

  • edited February 2020

    Been considering Stark, but looks like we’re getting increasing choice in AUv3 enabled amp sims with the release of Crunck v2 - and apparently Nembrini will be bringing more to iOS soon (see https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/37047/crunck-v2-by-nembrini-audio-s-r-l ... thanks @White and @BillS ).

    Yonac will need to accelerate it’s AUv3 efforts!

  • Does Crunk V2 focus or metal styles or I’m I making assumptions. It sounds high gain to me. I’d love some demos to showcase it’s range.

  • Just my two cents:
    Stark was a disappointment. I bought it without waiting for a demo because of the other Klevgrand plugins such Reamp, but it was so bad to my ears that I’ve deleted it after a couple of days.

    Tonestack has maybe the best arsenal of FXs on iOS, especially the modulations, but the amps are not so great, especially those in the Motherboard 1.

    Bias is just the opposite: very good amps, with a lot of tweaking possibilities, but the FXs are not the best around.

    Amplitube, IMHO, has some of the very best amps available and it is my goto at the moment, in conjuction with the TS effects.

    But now, Nembrini is coming to iOS, and I believed their amps will became my first choice, because are brilliant and because they are AUv3. You can demo them all on desktop for 15 days. 🤟

  • edited February 2020

    I’ll give mine too, for anyone else who is a musician and into tone/touch over scales to a maniacal degree:

    Nembrini: the winner. Just ran an aum test of everything side by side. Tried to adjust amps for similar tones but nembrini by miles and miles the best. Really like it.

    Tonestack: own it all for the variety of effects. Like the presence of the dev on ios but think the tone is very artificial and lacking in dynamics in all the amps. I think similarly for the effects, but this is less of a criticism as this is a problem that is inherent to some to degree to effects anyway. Every gate passed through scrapes more of the life from the sound. I do however think that, having been through god knows how many hardware pedals etc in my life, most of the ios stuff, and the tonestack stuff sounds like the cheaper end of the market, digitech multifx etc.

    Bias: decent and previously the best I’ve tried on ios but only after messing around for absolutely ages to get the couple of tones i like as before that found it disappointing and just well marketed and sleek design. The difficulty in finding natural sounding stuff with real alive sounding dynamics is one that applies to all modeled stuff, not just ios. And even real amps to some degree.

    Amplitube: was the first thing i used on ios. I haven’t used in a a couple of years as they were all so poor, thin and synthetic sounding, so maybe something has changed, but to offer a dissenting opinion to the above.

    Klevgrand: i like the dev’s presence and think they add something distinct to ios music in terms of presentation however i think theyre very hit and miss. I love their chorus, was one of the first fx i really loved, but think a lot of their amps, amp style effects do very little and not very well, and the same with the synths. For me, they are style over content with the apps being far too specific with not much depth pf breadth. Everything is as pastel shaded as it appears, to me. However, if you are really into what the app does you may love it. I’m not.

    Metal type distortion is easy to get. So are fender glassy clean tones. They are both very cold anyway and some people like this. I hate it and have no interest in either, ever. I will always use an overdrive over any distortion (except in some rare track) and a warm alive clean tone over the glassy stuff. I care more about feel, than some notion of accuracy, and working with that to stumble across little groves of magic. Overdrive is very hard to find done well. Just to get across who my thoughts might be useful to and who they wont be. :)

  • @wingwizard said:
    I’ll give mine too, for anyone else who is a musician and into tone/touch over scales to a maniacal degree:

    Nembrini: the winner. Just ran an aum test of everything side by side. Tried to adjust amps for similar tones but nembrini by miles and miles the best. Really like it.

    Tonestack: own it all for the variety of effects. Like the presence of the dev on ios but think the tone is very artificial and lacking in dynamics in all the amps. I think similarly for the effects, but this is less of a criticism as this is a problem that is inherent to some to degree to effects anyway. Every gate passed through scrapes more of the life from the sound. I do however think that, having been through god knows how many hardware pedals etc in my life, most of the ios stuff, and the tonestack stuff sounds like the cheaper end of the market, digitech multifx etc.

    Bias: decent and previously the best I’ve tried on ios but only after messing around for absolutely ages to get the couple of tones i like as before that found it disappointing and just well marketed and sleek design. The difficulty in finding natural sounding stuff with real alive sounding dynamics is one that applies to all modeled stuff, not just ios. And even real amps to some degree.

    Amplitube: was the first thing i used on ios. I haven’t used in a a couple of years as they were all so poor, thin and synthetic sounding, so maybe something has changed, but to offer a dissenting opinion to the above.

    Klevgrand: i like the dev’s presence and think they add something distinct to ios music in terms of presentation however i think theyre very hit and miss. I love their chorus, was one of the first fx i really loved, but think a lot of their amps, amp style effects do very little and not very well, and the same with the synths. For me, they are style over content with the apps being far too specific with not much depth pf breadth. Everything is as pastel shaded as it appears, to me. However, if you are really into what the app does you may love it. I’m not.

    Metal type distortion is easy to get. So are fender glassy clean tones. They are both very cold anyway and some people like this. I hate it and have no interest in either, ever. I will always use an overdrive over any distortion (except in some rare track) and a warm alive clean tone over the glassy stuff. I care more about feel, than some notion of accuracy, and working with that to stumble across little groves of magic. Overdrive is very hard to find done well. Just to get across who my thoughts might be useful to and who they wont be. :)

    About AmpliTube, @flo26 has posted some cool demos of the last amp bundles and, as you can see (and hear) by yourself, they sound great, and way better than the ones included in the earlier version.
    Anyway, Nembrini Audio amps are coming very soon and I think they will be a game changer.
    Very cool beans!

  • @Faland said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I’ll give mine too, for anyone else who is a musician and into tone/touch over scales to a maniacal degree:

    Nembrini: the winner. Just ran an aum test of everything side by side. Tried to adjust amps for similar tones but nembrini by miles and miles the best. Really like it.

    Tonestack: own it all for the variety of effects. Like the presence of the dev on ios but think the tone is very artificial and lacking in dynamics in all the amps. I think similarly for the effects, but this is less of a criticism as this is a problem that is inherent to some to degree to effects anyway. Every gate passed through scrapes more of the life from the sound. I do however think that, having been through god knows how many hardware pedals etc in my life, most of the ios stuff, and the tonestack stuff sounds like the cheaper end of the market, digitech multifx etc.

    Bias: decent and previously the best I’ve tried on ios but only after messing around for absolutely ages to get the couple of tones i like as before that found it disappointing and just well marketed and sleek design. The difficulty in finding natural sounding stuff with real alive sounding dynamics is one that applies to all modeled stuff, not just ios. And even real amps to some degree.

    Amplitube: was the first thing i used on ios. I haven’t used in a a couple of years as they were all so poor, thin and synthetic sounding, so maybe something has changed, but to offer a dissenting opinion to the above.

    Klevgrand: i like the dev’s presence and think they add something distinct to ios music in terms of presentation however i think theyre very hit and miss. I love their chorus, was one of the first fx i really loved, but think a lot of their amps, amp style effects do very little and not very well, and the same with the synths. For me, they are style over content with the apps being far too specific with not much depth pf breadth. Everything is as pastel shaded as it appears, to me. However, if you are really into what the app does you may love it. I’m not.

    Metal type distortion is easy to get. So are fender glassy clean tones. They are both very cold anyway and some people like this. I hate it and have no interest in either, ever. I will always use an overdrive over any distortion (except in some rare track) and a warm alive clean tone over the glassy stuff. I care more about feel, than some notion of accuracy, and working with that to stumble across little groves of magic. Overdrive is very hard to find done well. Just to get across who my thoughts might be useful to and who they wont be. :)

    About AmpliTube, @flo26 has posted some cool demos of the last amp bundles and, as you can see (and hear) by yourself, they sound great, and way better than the ones included in the earlier version.
    Anyway, Nembrini Audio amps are coming very soon and I think they will be a game changer.
    Very cool beans!

    Thanks thats interesting, i dont suppose you have any links to the vids - sorry im not sure where to look? If you have time id be interested to hear how you feel crunk compares to the amplitube new stuff and also amplitube to bias. :)

  • edited February 2020

    Has Anybody included AmpKit in their comparisons?

  • @wingwizard said:

    @Faland said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I’ll give mine too, for anyone else who is a musician and into tone/touch over scales to a maniacal degree:

    Nembrini: the winner. Just ran an aum test of everything side by side. Tried to adjust amps for similar tones but nembrini by miles and miles the best. Really like it.

    Tonestack: own it all for the variety of effects. Like the presence of the dev on ios but think the tone is very artificial and lacking in dynamics in all the amps. I think similarly for the effects, but this is less of a criticism as this is a problem that is inherent to some to degree to effects anyway. Every gate passed through scrapes more of the life from the sound. I do however think that, having been through god knows how many hardware pedals etc in my life, most of the ios stuff, and the tonestack stuff sounds like the cheaper end of the market, digitech multifx etc.

    Bias: decent and previously the best I’ve tried on ios but only after messing around for absolutely ages to get the couple of tones i like as before that found it disappointing and just well marketed and sleek design. The difficulty in finding natural sounding stuff with real alive sounding dynamics is one that applies to all modeled stuff, not just ios. And even real amps to some degree.

    Amplitube: was the first thing i used on ios. I haven’t used in a a couple of years as they were all so poor, thin and synthetic sounding, so maybe something has changed, but to offer a dissenting opinion to the above.

    Klevgrand: i like the dev’s presence and think they add something distinct to ios music in terms of presentation however i think theyre very hit and miss. I love their chorus, was one of the first fx i really loved, but think a lot of their amps, amp style effects do very little and not very well, and the same with the synths. For me, they are style over content with the apps being far too specific with not much depth pf breadth. Everything is as pastel shaded as it appears, to me. However, if you are really into what the app does you may love it. I’m not.

    Metal type distortion is easy to get. So are fender glassy clean tones. They are both very cold anyway and some people like this. I hate it and have no interest in either, ever. I will always use an overdrive over any distortion (except in some rare track) and a warm alive clean tone over the glassy stuff. I care more about feel, than some notion of accuracy, and working with that to stumble across little groves of magic. Overdrive is very hard to find done well. Just to get across who my thoughts might be useful to and who they wont be. :)

    About AmpliTube, @flo26 has posted some cool demos of the last amp bundles and, as you can see (and hear) by yourself, they sound great, and way better than the ones included in the earlier version.
    Anyway, Nembrini Audio amps are coming very soon and I think they will be a game changer.
    Very cool beans!

    Thanks thats interesting, i dont suppose you have any links to the vids - sorry im not sure where to look?

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/36953/ikmultimedia-s-british-collection-video-demo

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/36990/amplitube-s-fender-pack-video-demo

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/36975/amplitube-s-brian-may-pack-video-demo

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/37106/amplitube-s-z-amp-demo

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/37098/amplitube-s-jimi-hendrix-marshall-a-few-pedals-ir-cab-demo

  • @klownshed said:
    Has Anybody included AmpKit in their comparisons?

    Ampkit it’s not on the same level of the above, imho. I bought it many years ago, when I owned an iPad 1, with all the iaps, but not use it at all in the last times.

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