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Is there a MIDI AU scale quantizer that allows user scales with realtime input?

I know there are a variety of scale quantizer apps and a few AUs (e.g. Rozeta Scaler), but is there a MIDI AU scale quantizer that:
1- allows user selected scales? I.e. the user can enable the notes they want and not rely on preset scales.
2- allow realtime control over those notes selected? I.e. instead of just selecting the notes in the AU control panel, a second MIDI input allows chords played to be the "quantize mask" to which notes on the primary channel are transposed or filtered.

Assuming this doesn't exist yet, is there a developer who would like to make this?!

Comments

  • edited March 2019

    In a way, yes. If you think of ChordPolyPad pads not as holding chords, but holding an any arbitrary number of notes, then you have your scales on a pad. Each pad, even while being the active sending pad, can be edited on the fly.
    Is that close? (Not midi au sorry, AB midi)

  • @Zetagy said:
    In a way, yes. If you think of ChordPolyPad pads not as holding chords, but holding an any arbitrary number of notes, then you have your scales on a pad. Each pad, even while being the active sending pad, can be edited on the fly.
    Is that close? (Not midi au sorry, AB midi)

    Ideally something AU, and very lightweight. However, I still use tons of IAA apps, so that isn't a major issue for me (but I know it is for others).

    Bigger question: does it quantize incoming notes to the chords you're playing, or just generate them? I'm not looking for a way to play chords, but a way to take the chords I play and use them as a template to quantize other notes. E.g. random streams of notes from Rozeta Particles.

    Right now there are lots of ways to generate random notes, but you're limited to quantizing them to a full scale. I would like to constrain them further to the harmonic progression and therefore restricted to chords that I'm playing. Make sense?

  • @aplourde said:
    I know there are a variety of scale quantizer apps and a few AUs (e.g. Rozeta Scaler), but is there a MIDI AU scale quantizer that:
    1- allows user selected scales? I.e. the user can enable the notes they want and not rely on preset scales.
    2- allow realtime control over those notes selected? I.e. instead of just selecting the notes in the AU control panel, a second MIDI input allows chords played to be the "quantize mask" to which notes on the primary channel are transposed or filtered.

    Assuming this doesn't exist yet, is there a developer who would like to make this?!

    Streambyter - roll your own

    However also StepPolyArp kinda does what your asking for

    Pick whatever scale degree you want on the step sequencer or just run at mono
    Run the arp with the "key" of C chromatic (all notes) > press you arbitrary "chord"/scale on the keyboard.

  • @audiblevideo said:

    @aplourde said:
    I know there are a variety of scale quantizer apps and a few AUs (e.g. Rozeta Scaler), but is there a MIDI AU scale quantizer that:
    1- allows user selected scales? I.e. the user can enable the notes they want and not rely on preset scales.
    2- allow realtime control over those notes selected? I.e. instead of just selecting the notes in the AU control panel, a second MIDI input allows chords played to be the "quantize mask" to which notes on the primary channel are transposed or filtered.

    Assuming this doesn't exist yet, is there a developer who would like to make this?!

    Streambyter - roll your own

    However also StepPolyArp kinda does what your asking for

    Pick whatever scale degree you want on the step sequencer or just run at mono
    Run the arp with the "key" of C chromatic (all notes) > press you arbitrary "chord"/scale on the keyboard.

    Trying to wrap my head around this, isn’t this just the normal operation of SPA? I.e. it transposes based on input notes but it plays the pattern in the grid.

    I hoping to scale quantize an arbitrary input stream of notes on one MIDI channel to the chord I’m holding on a different MIDI channel.
    Or, at the very least, I want a scale quantizer that allows user created scales rather than preset ones.

  • Or, at the very least, I want a scale quantizer that allows user created scales rather than preset ones.

    ScaleGen fits this bill.

    As for the 'interactivity' of taking a stream of notes and filtering them through a user generated chord...
    that sounds like a scripting job for one of the MIDI tools like StreamByter, but don't ask me how to write it 😅

  • I’ve been thinking about this recently. I have a method that could be applied to any live stream of input notes to make them fit arbitrary chords coming in on a second midi channel, with a choice of different scale types, but I don’t write iOS apps and I’m not sure Streambyter would be up to the task, i.e. listening on 2 midi channels, analysing the chord and applying it across all octaves, etc. I may give it a closer look this week.

  • Hint: Dont think of SPAU as an arp, think of it as a filter. Each line can be set to a different channel, each note can be addressed as note 1-8 (>|). Lots of creative routing in SPAU if used in a different way

    I have a somewhat more complex setup involving Xequence sending to Streambyter sending to SPAU sending to SB again, 4 instruments driven by a master conductor, each instrument stays on scale and key, fully controllable. What you're describing is possible, learn SB and get really out of the box creative. The app may not exist, but the parts to assemble your super-app are there-!

  • @TheOriginalPaulB said:
    I’ve been thinking about this recently. I have a method that could be applied to any live stream of input notes to make them fit arbitrary chords coming in on a second midi channel, with a choice of different scale types, but I don’t write iOS apps and I’m not sure Streambyter would be up to the task, i.e. listening on 2 midi channels, analysing the chord and applying it across all octaves, etc. I may give it a closer look this week.

    Checked with Nic and he said that it should be possible; "complex but not impossible" were his words. Unfortunately, I'm so time-poor that I wouldn't be able to take this on....

    A StreamByter script would be great, but I would still love a dedicated AU that had a full UI, etc.

  • @aplourde funny you should ask....
    A couple of days ago I started a new AU midi app based on Quantum User Scales.
    You can adjust each of the 12 semitones to another semitone (e.g. c# maps to c).
    I'm adding in some 2000+ scales too - working on that a now
    Will look at your request to midi control..

  • I’ve been trying these scripts, using one instance of StreamByter to identify chords and another instance to map midi notes, seems to work pretty well.

    http://audeonic.boards.net/thread/609/scripts-identify-chord-map-midi

  • edited March 2019

    @GrimLucky said:
    I’ve been trying these scripts, using one instance of StreamByter to identify chords and another instance to map midi notes, seems to work pretty well.

    http://audeonic.boards.net/thread/609/scripts-identify-chord-map-midi

    Isn't that more chords mapped to midi notes(not reading the script here though)?

    I think @aplourde & @audiblevideo are aiming at scales (so 12 semitone mapping, C Major being one such mapping) - chords/notes are then translated to the nearest notes in the scale.

  • @midiSequencer said:

    @GrimLucky said:
    I’ve been trying these scripts, using one instance of StreamByter to identify chords and another instance to map midi notes, seems to work pretty well.

    http://audeonic.boards.net/thread/609/scripts-identify-chord-map-midi

    Isn't that more chords mapped to midi notes(not reading the script here though)?

    I think @aplourde & @audiblevideo are aiming at scales (so 12 semitone mapping, C Major being one such mapping) - chords/notes are then translated to the nearest notes in the scale.

    Yes, my scripting knowledge is limited but it seems to map incoming midi notes to a 4 note chord based on another midi stream, it could possibly be modified for scales as well.

  • I had in mind a scheme whereby scales are identified that fit an incoming chord (ie the chord notes are in the scales) and an incoming stream of notes on another channel is altered to fit one of those scales. I get the impression we may not all be talking about the same thing.

  • @TheOriginalPaulB said:
    I had in mind a scheme whereby scales are identified that fit an incoming chord (ie the chord notes are in the scales) and an incoming stream of notes on another channel is altered to fit one of those scales. I get the impression we may not all be talking about the same thing.

    I think you might be right ;) But I was doing an app to allow custom scales anyway which seems to fit @aplourde 's request?

  • edited March 2019

    @midiSequencer said:

    @aplourde funny you should ask....
    A couple of days ago I started a new AU midi app based on Quantum User Scales.
    You can adjust each of the 12 semitones to another semitone (e.g. c# maps to c).
    I'm adding in some 2000+ scales too - working on that a now
    Will look at your request to midi control..

    That sounds fantastic! Quantum's user scales are very nice.

    A couple of thoughts:
    Ideally there would be an input "mute" for each note prior to the per-not transpose (both exposed as parameters for remote control). This would allow you to filter notes (statically or on the fly) or allow them to pass and either be passed through or shifted to alternate notes.

    The realtime control I was writing about would essentially be akin to "solos" for the notes instead of mutes: when you trigger those channels remotely, only the triggered channels pass through. The trick here would be to have (in addition to normal mapping) an "any note of a pitch class" assignment (i.e. instead of just mapping to C3 to open the C channel, it would map to any octave of C)

    Does that make sense? Does that seem like something you would be interested in?

    Further ideas would be to have the ability to transpose the notes in addition to filtering / scale quantizing. Again, ideally under MIDI control....

  • @midiSequencer said:

    @GrimLucky said:
    I’ve been trying these scripts, using one instance of StreamByter to identify chords and another instance to map midi notes, seems to work pretty well.

    http://audeonic.boards.net/thread/609/scripts-identify-chord-map-midi

    Isn't that more chords mapped to midi notes(not reading the script here though)?

    I think @aplourde & @audiblevideo are aiming at scales (so 12 semitone mapping, C Major being one such mapping) - chords/notes are then translated to the nearest notes in the scale.

    That script sounds very cool. Actually pretty close to what I was asking about. However, what I described above could be both a static scale quantizer as well as a dynamic performance tool.

  • @midiSequencer
    For your scales app, please include the ability to specify how Out-of-scale notes remap to scale notes, exactly how you have it in Quantum. Being able to specify map to nearest higher or lower note, or block note, on a per-note basis, is what really sets Quantum’s note filter apart from all of the others.

  • edited March 2019

    @CracklePot said:
    @midiSequencer
    For your scales app, please include the ability to specify how Out-of-scale notes remap to scale notes, exactly how you have it in Quantum. Being able to specify map to nearest higher or lower note, or block note, on a per-note basis, is what really sets Quantum’s note filter apart from all of the others.

    thats the plan - per semitone adjustment of -11 to +11 semitones to allow you to remap one semitone to any other.
    You can do this manually (just swipe the box) or start with a known scale.

    These known scales (about 500 of them), together with your choice of root note, come with an option to auto-remap non-scale notes (mixing lower/higher semitones in various ways or even just muting non-scales). You can manually adjust afterwards of course.

    A button for each semitone exists to switch the mapping of that semitone to :
    1) adjust to scale(using the adj number)
    2) mute (ie block)
    3) non-scale(i.e. play as is)

    I'm looking at the ability to map input scaling to use only 1 midi channel & use another channel as a temporary 'scale' from with the other notes can be remapped according to the option. In this way you sample chords.

    So all in all this is like Quantum User scales, but with a lot more presets, more choices to auto-map and multi-midi channel chord sampling.

    All adjustments will be exposed as AU Parameters too, so you can automate this.

    Not sure yet If I'm going to add a transpose too (like Rozeta Scalar), but its easy for me to add this so its easy for you to play in C rather than G# say.

    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

  • @midiSequencer said:

    @CracklePot said:
    @midiSequencer
    For your scales app, please include the ability to specify how Out-of-scale notes remap to scale notes, exactly how you have it in Quantum. Being able to specify map to nearest higher or lower note, or block note, on a per-note basis, is what really sets Quantum’s note filter apart from all of the others.

    thats the plan - per semitone adjustment of -11 to +11 semitones to allow you to remap one semitone to any other.
    You can do this manually (just swipe the box) or start with a known scale.

    These known scales (about 500 of them), together with your choice of root note, come with an option to auto-remap non-scale notes (mixing lower/higher semitones in various ways or even just muting non-scales). You can manually adjust afterwards of course.

    A button for each semitone exists to switch the mapping of that semitone to :
    1) adjust to scale(using the adj number)
    2) mute (ie block)
    3) non-scale(i.e. play as is)

    I'm looking at the ability to map input scaling to use only 1 midi channel & use another channel as a temporary 'scale' from with the other notes can be remapped according to the option. In this way you sample chords.

    So all in all this is like Quantum User scales, but with a lot more presets, more choices to auto-map and multi-midi channel chord sampling.

    All adjustments will be exposed as AU Parameters too, so you can automate this.

    Not sure yet If I'm going to add a transpose too (like Rozeta Scalar), but its easy for me to add this so its easy for you to play in C rather than G# say.

    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

    This sounds amazing. Thank you for the details. B)

  • edited March 2019

    @midiSequencer on paper your app idea looks like it’d work great with a Jamstik + , it has such a small amount of frets.

    The more controls you have in ‘correcting’ app the better safeguards we have for music (imho)

    Lest we forget that we people say things like ‘drum machines have no groove’, or auto tune is creating lazy singers.

    I occasionally use scalar in live performances (w/ a kitara, for some reason it’s easy to get lost in the frets), and think of it as ‘performance-safe bumper guards’. But sometime when I favor gypsy-scale in AniMoog for too long in a jam, I wonder,
    🤔 Should I just learn these scales better? Then I remember pssshh iPhones aren’t tactile, I couldn’t hit the right notes if I tried, lol...🤣

  • @Dr_M said:
    @midiSequencer on paper your app idea looks like it’d work great with a Jamstik + , it has such a small amount of frets.

    The more controls you have in ‘correcting’ app the better safeguards we have for music (imho)

    Lest we forget that we people say things like ‘drum machines have no groove’, or auto tune is creating lazy singers.

    I occasionally use scalar in live performances (w/ a kitara, for some reason it’s easy to get lost in the frets), and think of it as ‘performance-safe bumper guards’. But sometime when I favor gypsy-scale in AniMoog for too long in a jam, I wonder,
    🤔 Should I just learn these scales better? Then I remember pssshh iPhones aren’t tactile, I couldn’t hit the right notes if I tried, lol...🤣

    i found scale correcting notes an easy way to write sequences of melodies. I never got on with hardware sequencers as the are chromatic so Id get lost easily and spoil the mood.
    Like you say, yes we should learn those scales better but its hard not to write a good melody if you work with scale notes and then just use simple interval rules.
    In my Quantum app I use scales all the time in my compositions.

  • @midiSequencer said
    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

    Did someone say UI ;)

    Hope you getting a lot done. I’m still free if you need me.

  • @audiblevideo said:

    @midiSequencer said
    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

    Did someone say UI ;)

    Hope you getting a lot done. I’m still free if you need me.

    yes, let me finish the layout then share with you. Its fairly simple & based on the Quantum layout with a slide out panel for the scales

  • @midiSequencer said:

    @CracklePot said:
    @midiSequencer
    For your scales app, please include the ability to specify how Out-of-scale notes remap to scale notes, exactly how you have it in Quantum. Being able to specify map to nearest higher or lower note, or block note, on a per-note basis, is what really sets Quantum’s note filter apart from all of the others.

    thats the plan - per semitone adjustment of -11 to +11 semitones to allow you to remap one semitone to any other.
    You can do this manually (just swipe the box) or start with a known scale.

    These known scales (about 500 of them), together with your choice of root note, come with an option to auto-remap non-scale notes (mixing lower/higher semitones in various ways or even just muting non-scales). You can manually adjust afterwards of course.

    A button for each semitone exists to switch the mapping of that semitone to :
    1) adjust to scale(using the adj number)
    2) mute (ie block)
    3) non-scale(i.e. play as is)

    I'm looking at the ability to map input scaling to use only 1 midi channel & use another channel as a temporary 'scale' from with the other notes can be remapped according to the option. In this way you sample chords.

    So all in all this is like Quantum User scales, but with a lot more presets, more choices to auto-map and multi-midi channel chord sampling.

    All adjustments will be exposed as AU Parameters too, so you can automate this.

    Not sure yet If I'm going to add a transpose too (like Rozeta Scalar), but its easy for me to add this so its easy for you to play in C rather than G# say.

    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

    Sounds great! The ability to remote control this on a per-note basis will be fantastic (even if the "2nd channel note sampling" doesn't happen).

    Looking forward to this (and let me know if you need beta testing ; )

  • @aplourde said:

    @midiSequencer said:

    @CracklePot said:
    @midiSequencer
    For your scales app, please include the ability to specify how Out-of-scale notes remap to scale notes, exactly how you have it in Quantum. Being able to specify map to nearest higher or lower note, or block note, on a per-note basis, is what really sets Quantum’s note filter apart from all of the others.

    thats the plan - per semitone adjustment of -11 to +11 semitones to allow you to remap one semitone to any other.
    You can do this manually (just swipe the box) or start with a known scale.

    These known scales (about 500 of them), together with your choice of root note, come with an option to auto-remap non-scale notes (mixing lower/higher semitones in various ways or even just muting non-scales). You can manually adjust afterwards of course.

    A button for each semitone exists to switch the mapping of that semitone to :
    1) adjust to scale(using the adj number)
    2) mute (ie block)
    3) non-scale(i.e. play as is)

    I'm looking at the ability to map input scaling to use only 1 midi channel & use another channel as a temporary 'scale' from with the other notes can be remapped according to the option. In this way you sample chords.

    So all in all this is like Quantum User scales, but with a lot more presets, more choices to auto-map and multi-midi channel chord sampling.

    All adjustments will be exposed as AU Parameters too, so you can automate this.

    Not sure yet If I'm going to add a transpose too (like Rozeta Scalar), but its easy for me to add this so its easy for you to play in C rather than G# say.

    Most of the above is done already except the two channel chord sampler & some UI tidy up.

    Sounds great! The ability to remote control this on a per-note basis will be fantastic (even if the "2nd channel note sampling" doesn't happen).

    Looking forward to this (and let me know if you need beta testing ; )

    it will expose semitones as AU Parameters so could be automated, but yes the sampling can be done to record scale notes and then use an auto adjust method or manually tweak.
    My list of preset chords is just a name & set of scale semitones so the input is that set of semitones.
    Will add you to the beta

  • @midiSequencer said:

    @Dr_M said:
    @midiSequencer on paper your app idea looks like it’d work great with a Jamstik + , it has such a small amount of frets.

    The more controls you have in ‘correcting’ app the better safeguards we have for music (imho)

    Lest we forget that we people say things like ‘drum machines have no groove’, or auto tune is creating lazy singers.

    I occasionally use scalar in live performances (w/ a kitara, for some reason it’s easy to get lost in the frets), and think of it as ‘performance-safe bumper guards’. But sometime when I favor gypsy-scale in AniMoog for too long in a jam, I wonder,
    🤔 Should I just learn these scales better? Then I remember pssshh iPhones aren’t tactile, I couldn’t hit the right notes if I tried, lol...🤣

    i found scale correcting notes an easy way to write sequences of melodies. I never got on with hardware sequencers as the are chromatic so Id get lost easily and spoil the mood.
    Like you say, yes we should learn those scales better but its hard not to write a good melody if you work with scale notes and then just use simple interval rules.
    In my Quantum app I use scales all the time in my compositions.

    That’s great.
    Let me clarify.
    I personally challenge myself to learn more scales. But not for playing an iphone screen.

    With hardware, I tend to gravitate toward arpeggiation bc its a similar way to choose scales and stay in key when jamming around with a band or group of friends.

    My main midi instrument is a Kitara which is sensitive in such a way that Scale apps enhance musicality and prevent off key notes, but In reality I can only do that bc I trigger iPad w/ midi from a Kitara, so adding a scale app is no problem, tho some synth apps like AniMoog are programmed with such.

    At the end of the day tho, I minimize my usage of these methods in certain situations bc I am trying to create new music, & sometimes that scale slip up between scales is just lit, fam, and is just the ticket. New journeys cannot always follow old paths.

    I’m exited about the possibilities with your app, sounds like it will have a very extensive scale list.

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