Photon AU is available

espiegel123

@CracklePot said:

@espiegel123 said:

@CracklePot said:

@espiegel123 said:

@CracklePot said:

@GovernorSilver said:

@CracklePot said:

Can Midi even work without a clock of some sort?

Sure. I can plug any MIDI keyboard into any of my synths that have MIDI jacks, and play the keyboard and have the synth receive MIDI without a clock running.

Ok. Now how about midi recording and looping that?
That is what we are discussing.
You went too general, but are right in your statement.

There is nothing that prevents independent clocks/tempos even when recording. Sending midi notes doesn't require sending clock. Recording notes doesn't require syncing to another clock.

One could create a MIDI looping app that has all the same sorts of options as Loopy. There is no technical obstacle.

I think @midiSequencer indicated that he would look into it.

But for recording and playing back recorded sequences, looped or not, a clock is required.
Sure it can be independent, or not synced externally, but a clock would still be needed.
If you have stuff playing back over time, at predetermined points in time, you would need a clock to reference the time stuff needs to happen.

Not talking about live humans playing keyboards, or un-synced clocks, or even many independent clocks. Just the idea that to have data played back in a sequence, you need to reference time in some way. For that you would need a clock, correct?

The clocks can be independent. And unsynched. From the user perspective, you can think of the clocks as independent even if in some sense there is a master clock.

I am not sure what the confusion is. You can have three sequencers right now running unsynched. Nothing prevents an app from playing tracks that have essentially independent clocks.

The confusion is you keep talking about independent clocks, but that doesn’t mean no clocks are required. Each sequencer still has a clock, in your example.
I am talking about the basic requirement of a clock to place things in time.
You need a measure of time, in other words a clock.
It could be an internal, independent clock, unrelated to any ‘other’ or ‘master’ clock (except maybe the CPU).

Seems like a distinction without a difference.

Maybe I misunderstand your point. It seems like you are saying that one couldn't have an app that plays loops that have uncoordinated clocks. This doesn't imply that the loops don't use an internal clock of some sort....simply that from a user perspective they are independent even if technically there is some master clock that provides a reference.

CracklePot

@espiegel123 said:

@CracklePot said:

@espiegel123 said:

@CracklePot said:

@espiegel123 said:

@CracklePot said:

@GovernorSilver said:

@CracklePot said:

Can Midi even work without a clock of some sort?

Sure. I can plug any MIDI keyboard into any of my synths that have MIDI jacks, and play the keyboard and have the synth receive MIDI without a clock running.

Ok. Now how about midi recording and looping that?
That is what we are discussing.
You went too general, but are right in your statement.

There is nothing that prevents independent clocks/tempos even when recording. Sending midi notes doesn't require sending clock. Recording notes doesn't require syncing to another clock.

One could create a MIDI looping app that has all the same sorts of options as Loopy. There is no technical obstacle.

I think @midiSequencer indicated that he would look into it.

But for recording and playing back recorded sequences, looped or not, a clock is required.
Sure it can be independent, or not synced externally, but a clock would still be needed.
If you have stuff playing back over time, at predetermined points in time, you would need a clock to reference the time stuff needs to happen.

Not talking about live humans playing keyboards, or un-synced clocks, or even many independent clocks. Just the idea that to have data played back in a sequence, you need to reference time in some way. For that you would need a clock, correct?

The clocks can be independent. And unsynched. From the user perspective, you can think of the clocks as independent even if in some sense there is a master clock.

I am not sure what the confusion is. You can have three sequencers right now running unsynched. Nothing prevents an app from playing tracks that have essentially independent clocks.

The confusion is you keep talking about independent clocks, but that doesn’t mean no clocks are required. Each sequencer still has a clock, in your example.
I am talking about the basic requirement of a clock to place things in time.
You need a measure of time, in other words a clock.
It could be an internal, independent clock, unrelated to any ‘other’ or ‘master’ clock (except maybe the CPU).

Seems like a distinction without a difference.

Maybe I misunderstand your point. It seems like you are saying that one couldn't have an app that plays loops that have uncoordinated clocks. This doesn't imply that the loops don't use an internal clock of some sort....simply that from a user perspective they are independent even if technically there is some master clock that provides a reference.

Going way back to the beginning of the thread.
Someone talked about being free of clocks, as in no clock at all, which technically doesn’t seem possible.
He clarified what he actually meant, which is pretty much what you are talking about here.

I am saying having no clock in any form doesn’t seem possible.
I know, and have said, that the clocks in different apps or different loops or whatever do not have to work together, in any way.
But, you still need a reference to time, in all of those cases, so you still need a clock.

Anyway, I give up.
If you don’t understand what I mean, no biggie.

GovernorSilver

Definitely don't need MIDI clock if you're just using one MIDI keyboard to manually play sounds on a connected MIDI module, iPad, laptop or whatever. Typical scenario is your weekend warrior keyboardist playing classic rock/New Wave covers with a band in some bar - that player is not going to care so much about MIDI sequencing.

Now Photon AU.. I'm guessing it does need a clock? So much posted today I don't remember how the topic changed from that. Have a good weekend if I don't hear from y'all.

wim

@GovernorSilver said:
Definitely don't need MIDI clock if you're just using one MIDI keyboard to manually play sounds on a connected MIDI module, iPad, laptop or whatever. Typical scenario is your weekend warrior keyboardist playing classic rock/New Wave covers with a band in some bar - that player is not going to care so much about MIDI sequencing.

Now Photon AU.. I'm guessing it does need a clock? So much posted today I don't remember how the topic changed from that. Have a good weekend if I don't hear from y'all.

Yes, host transport must be running for photon to record. Looping doesn't have to be restricted to any bar or beat multiple, but there is quantization of the loop length to some tempo related beat subdivision. I'm not sure how small that fraction is, but it's there, and prevents completely seamless looping independent of tempo. Also, the length of the loop will change if you adjust the host tempo after recording, and the host tempo will be saved in the exported MIDI file.

espiegel123

Is groove quantizing working for people? It seems not to be working for me but it could be user error.

RajahP

Seems Photon is broken in iPadOS.. cannot import midi in the stand alone...anyone?

Tim6502

Same issue here (iPadPro w/ iPadOS 13.2) - Photon does not show up in the Open as/Copy to dialogue from Files, though a ‘Photon AU’ apps dir has apparently been created for it.
The promise of handling Midi files made this plugin appear more open and attractive than others.

Hoping for this to get fixed soon - it would be killer to be able to select and drop a whole slew of midis.

wim

Tagging @midiSequencer.

RajahP

@Tim6502 said:
Same issue here (iPadPro w/ iPadOS 13.2) - Photon does not show up in the Open as/Copy to dialogue from Files, though a ‘Photon AU’ apps dir has apparently been created for it.
The promise of handling Midi files made this plugin appear more open and attractive than others.

Hoping for this to get fixed soon - it would be killer to be able to select and drop a whole slew of midis.

Yes.. folder management, etc..

Thanks for confirming..

@wim said:
Tagging @midiSequencer.

Svetlovska

Oops - just realised I created a new post elsewhere on the same issue as above. Repeating it here, hopefully for the attention of @midiSequencer

“I wonder if anyone else has an issue with this? Prior to the IPad OS update I was happily using Photon AU with Files on my IPad 2018, saving .mid clips made in other apps like Suggester into the Photon AU folder ‘On My IPad’ and then being able to open them in photon whilst using it inside AUM. I now find that it doesn’t recognise any files placed in the folder, despite me uninstalling and reinstalling. Any thoughts? I am also contacting the dev direct. Thanks.”

Carnbot

Is there any news on a potential update for Photon @midiSequencer ?

It's such a useful app, but state saving would make it much more complete.
The planned gui revisions would also be great to make it easier to work with.

lukesleepwalker

@Carnbot said:
Is there any news on a potential update for Photon @midiSequencer ?

It's such a useful app, but state saving would make it much more complete.
The planned gui revisions would also be great to make it easier to work with.

Indeed, I hope the dev returns to this one at some point. So much promise!

Carnbot

@lukesleepwalker said:

@Carnbot said:
Is there any news on a potential update for Photon @midiSequencer ?

It's such a useful app, but state saving would make it much more complete.
The planned gui revisions would also be great to make it easier to work with.

Indeed, I hope the dev returns to this one at some point. So much promise!

I find I want to use this process more than dedicated piano rolls in AUM for example, where here you can record input from sequences and then manipulate them with knobs, great for live jamming. With state saving I'd use it more regularly

lukesleepwalker

@Carnbot said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@Carnbot said:
Is there any news on a potential update for Photon @midiSequencer ?

It's such a useful app, but state saving would make it much more complete.
The planned gui revisions would also be great to make it easier to work with.

Indeed, I hope the dev returns to this one at some point. So much promise!

I find I want to use this process more than dedicated piano rolls in AUM for example, where here you can record input from sequences and then manipulate them with knobs, great for live jamming. With state saving I'd use it more regularly

I can deal with the GUI just fine. To me, the lack of state saving just means I don't use it. Which is a shame because it would be a workhorse for me otherwise (for the reasons you listed and more).

Tim6502

Agreed, @lukesleepwalker! The Midi file import has not worked for me to date (iPadOS 13.3).

When as a workaround I was using Photon to record streaming Midi, it would end up crashing - typically after receiving over 1000 notes, but sometimes with less. Would not care at all about this, if I could just pick up the .mid files directly.

The UI and extra features do not matter as much as the fundamentals.
Unfortunately, the one feature that this AUv3 has that others do not is also the feature that is totally broken for me. - Still holding out hope that this will get fixed one of these days...

midiSequencer

should have some time very soon to fix these (iOS file import in IOS13 & state saving & iPhone X layout)

midiSequencer

@Tim6502 said:

When as a workaround I was using Photon to record streaming Midi, it would end up crashing - typically after receiving over 1000 notes, but sometimes with less. Would not care at all about this, if I could just pick up the .mid files directly.

shouldn't be a limit on notes, but it records everything (except sysex) - I'll check its not recording any $Fx midi as that would include timing signals, but afaik 1000 notes should be ok.

lukesleepwalker

@midiSequencer said:
should have some time very soon to fix these (iOS file import in IOS13 & state saving & iPhone X layout)

HUZZAH!

espiegel123

@midiSequencer said:

@Tim6502 said:

When as a workaround I was using Photon to record streaming Midi, it would end up crashing - typically after receiving over 1000 notes, but sometimes with less. Would not care at all about this, if I could just pick up the .mid files directly.

shouldn't be a limit on notes, but it records everything (except sysex) - I'll check its not recording any $Fx midi as that would include timing signals, but afaik 1000 notes should be ok.

Tony, something that I have experienced is that if I do a recording of MIDI cc only (no notes), I frequently get crashes after a 45 seconds or so. If I record the same cc's but with occasional MIDI notes, i don't get crashes. It would be great if recording MIDI that doesn't have any notes were more stable. I often want to record knob/fader moves (via MIDI cc) without recording notes.

CracklePot

@midiSequencer
Happy Holidays!
Hope all is going well for you.
😊

midiSequencer

@espiegel123 said:
Tony, something that I have experienced is that if I do a recording of MIDI cc only (no notes), I frequently get crashes after a 45 seconds or so. If I record the same cc's but with occasional MIDI notes, i don't get crashes. It would be great if recording MIDI that doesn't have any notes were more stable. I often want to record knob/fader moves (via MIDI cc) without recording notes.

Let me add that to the test....

espiegel123

@midiSequencer said:

@espiegel123 said:
Tony, something that I have experienced is that if I do a recording of MIDI cc only (no notes), I frequently get crashes after a 45 seconds or so. If I record the same cc's but with occasional MIDI notes, i don't get crashes. It would be great if recording MIDI that doesn't have any notes were more stable. I often want to record knob/fader moves (via MIDI cc) without recording notes.

Let me add that to the test....

I'd be happy to beta test.

Carnbot

@lukesleepwalker said:

@midiSequencer said:
should have some time very soon to fix these (iOS file import in IOS13 & state saving & iPhone X layout)

HUZZAH!

Great

RajahP

@midiSequencer said:
should have some time very soon to fix these (iOS file import in IOS13 & state saving & iPhone X layout)

Don’t know what’s happening.. but, Photon seems to be working better than ever with the latest ios update.. Bouncing around midi ‘files’ is like never before.. edit files in Xequence 2 and export to Photon.. I’m set now.. can start creating music... Nice..
Edit.. not too sure about state-saving..

Carnbot

State saving never worked, but is supposed to be on the way hopefully.

RajahP

@Carnbot said:
State saving never worked, but is supposed to be on the way hopefully.

Yes, that will be great.. one can continue where you left off.. But Photon shows how important it is to have a midi rec/importer-exporter in AUM..
Hope it gets updated soon..

espiegel123

@midiSequencer : are you still around?

I hope you are doing ok!

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

Do I need this app if I already have Drambo?

audiblevideo

It can do some pretty cool midi manipulation without destroying the original loop, and some cool midi morphing by groove matching to other midi files. It’s kinda hard to explain. Go watch some vids.

NoiseFloored

Also, it captures all MIDI and for as long as you want, so it really depends on what you’re looking for.