Audiobus: Use your music apps together.
What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.
Download on the App StoreAudiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.
New to Forum - Almost bought Boss RC-300
Hello All,
I hope I’m posting in the right spot. I am new to the music looping/recording game. I was just about to buy a Boss RC-300 looper, when I can across this forum. I read a post strongly advising against tge RC-300, and recommending Quantiloop with an iPad. Would that set up allow me to create multiple loops (guitar, bass, hand-drums, vocals) on the fly? I would need an audio interface right? Any suggestions? Any suggestions on midi pedals so the looping would be easy?
Thanks much folks.... I know I have a lot to learn.
Comments
I''m about 2 weeks ahead of you so take this with a grain of alcohol.
Quantiloop is reviewed as being the closest to the Boss Loopers.
It's not loved here as much as other Loopers because most are not using it like a busking musician would.
There are great Bluetooth pedals that cost more than I would spend. I settled on the tradeoff of the IK Multimedia Blueboard.
It has mushy buttons but like any Looper (I believe) practice will make it an instrument I will master with practice but hate initially.
There's a Sax Player (@Janosax) here that plays live and automates the music he plays over and he selected the BlueBoard too.
You need an audio interface to get the Microphone and the instruments into the iPad without plugging and unplugging.
iConnect 4 is probably the right choice but that's another research job given the way you'd like to perform and setup.
Some people hate cables and want to optimize for a battery driven rig for example. Do able but tricky. USB Audio helps with USB Battery packs.
@Janosax also uses StreamByter to get more accomplished with the 4 button Blueboard. It might be you'd want more Blueboards to get more buttons or just invest in a pedal with more buttons. I hate wires and went Bluetooth but many Guitar FX units have MIDI out and a lot of quality buttons like the Digitech stuff. Mine has 12 buttons and 6 are programmable and I use a Yahama MT-B01 to convert the 5-pin MIDI OUT to Bluetooth to not have that cable to manage and somehow plumb into the iPad. Bluetooth is fine for MIDI by the way. It's just shite for audio except as a channel to play backing tracks which are delayed but only by 1/4 of a second. Not OK for pick the guitar and wait 1/4 second for the note... not good for realtime.
This will be a journey and many have taken the trip and have scars to show for it. Buy the Boss if you're not a problem solver.
I happen to like puzzles so I find problem solving to be fun when I win.
The thing about loopers, is that you really want it to just work when you hit the button. There is no way the iPad is more likely to work when you click the button.
The iOS loopers are a good way to go if you own an iPad, and audio interface, and foot controller, and don’t mind good amount of delicate cabling, setup and MIDI headscratching.
iOS loopers do offer more tracks, editing options, routing to iOS effects, and easier export options, but the hardware is more likely to just work. I use a 505 looper with a mic and synths and really like it. I do like to use Loopy with other iOS instruments and effects, if everything is in the box. It syncs nicely, and exports loops nicely, and you can run effects on different loops via AudioBus. Might actually be a better option, if the intention is to use your individual loops in recording projects with an iOS DAW. Of course, if recording is the goal it may just make sense to make loops directly in the DAW.
So, I’d say hardware if you want something finite and reliable, or if you aren’t patient. iOS if you want to go deep with effects and layers, and want to use your loops in recordings on the iPad.
Nothing much to add except that going down the iOS looper route could also have the side benefit of introducing you to other apps for making music with an iPad. That's how I ended up in this mess! (Hardly ever do looping any more but have loved the journey into a new world of creativity.)
Hmmmm... so much to learn. So much to think about.
I am intrigued by the creative possibilities of the iOS based stuff, but I am hesitant about all the wiring, possible latency and ease of use. I want to be able to just experiment easily and have fun, bit would love to have the possibility to easily record and manipulate tracks.
Anyone have any experience with the Apogee Gio used with Logic Pro and Mainstage (or GarageBand)?
I really do appreciate all the thoughts you are sharing. I’m sure these newbie questions get annoying.
Thanks.
Welcome to the forum. 👍
What he said.
And what @Processaurus said. With iPad looping vs dedicated loop hardware you're making a trade off. Many find the trade off worth it but it's important to know the trade off going in.
iPad looping apps like Loopy (my favorite) offer a lot of power over hardware loopers. More tracks. Unlimited storage. Easy to copy a loop into another app to edit it and then bring it back in (more for song writing than 'live' looping, obviously). TONS of control options. Some other looper apps offer real time effects, song section support...
The downside is that you have to bring your own interface and controller to the party. If you're only doing vocal looping, you can probably get away with skipping the controller since you can use the App's interface with your fingers (whereas that's awfully hard to do if you're using your fingers on a fret board, for instance).
Lots of posts around here about interfaces and controllers. You'll need to be more specific about what you want to do in order to get 'good' specific recommendations. What do you need to plug in? How many different things at once? How much control over the looping do you need? For instance, there are great 3-4 pedal bluetooth controllers (no wires!) but, depending on what you want to do, that might not be enough. There are 'classic', powerful MIDI foot controllers like the Behringer FCB-1010 but some of those require a hardware MIDI port. So that decision would change your interface options (because you'd need one with MIDI input port)...
It's a bit tangled. Lots of options but more leg work on your part. Vs going home with something like RC-300, plugging in and getting on with it (and accepting its limitations as part of the ease-of-use trade off).
Not to discourage you. You'll find the majority of folks here have opted for the iPad option, naturally.
I might suggest searching the forum a little more and then starting new threads with as-specific-as-possible questions.
Also, should be said, it's relatively cheap to experiment with iOS looping apps. It will not be the full possible experience until you get an interface and controller but not a terrible way to explore the possibilities. And, as ever, your local used market can reduce the investment risk. For instance, any old "class compliant" audio interface will do and they can be found or <$30 on craigslist.
Hello to you Mister @feldspar1333...
IOS is not the "fun house"... it's the "mad house". But you can experiment endlessly for very little money initially then the credit card bill shows up and you think: I could have bought the Boss.
Go to the Creations Thread and check out the artists who post here and find one that suites your musical style and the PM that person to see what they use. Write it down and add up the prices on the iTunes Store:
Cubasis $50
Quantiloop $12
Loopy HD...
etc
The FX Apps are amazing. They are becoming complex like the great Guitar Pedals that every covets.
The DAW's are somewhat frustration due to RAM and CPU limitations. We have 2GB on most ipads and 32-256GB storage
that's rarely a bottleneck. Just a pain to treat as a file system. The Apps own the data. You paid for the App but the data is hard to get out. The only useful external storage is Apple iCloud IMHO. Apple sells an SD Card Reader but only let's it read photos.
Still, master the tools and you'll have the most mobile studio possible. Think of it as a puzzle designed by a committee where the members can't coordinate their efforts... a mad house for creatives.
Only thing I can add is I bought one of these Boss loopers a few years back, and it didn’t work. Wouldn’t record a second loop for some reason, so I sent it back. I also have a Boss multi fx unit - similar tinny build - that occasionally ‘goes mad’ when I’m playing it.
Just my ten pence worth, based only on my own experience, but I wouldn’t trust one on stage.
@feldspar1333 Do you already own an iPad?
If not, would you buy one just for looping?
I can't confirm the that the Boss pedals don't work.
They're not perfect but they do their job if you take the time and work through the manual.
Answer these little questions to get a 15 years experienced analysis.
1- Live gigs or studio composition?
2- Building from scratch (improvisation) or working from song repertory?
3- Professional gigging or experimental?
4- Loop as main workflow or as extra value (this is related to 2 & 3)?
5- Limit budget? Drop a number...
6- Since you mentioned Mainstage/Logic, Are you considering use a mac in your set? Explain it related to question 1 (As example I consider using iPad setup as live looping experimental or simple backtracking in live gigs but I only consider using the mac mini in that scenario when I need extra apps like Mainstage/Live where I rarely go Live looping...)
7- Previous experience/knowledge with hardware and software? Things like I had other hardware loopers before... or knowledge about midi or key stroking, structured mindset capable of minimum scripting, etc...
Since you asked about Hardware vs Software (or apps) and as someone pointed before me this is a journey and whatever decision you make it's up to you and your workflow. All of us had preferences, knowledge and experiences so try to get clear your focus and learn the most you can from all of us.
Welcome to the forum !
That was just my own very, very limited experience - I'm sure in most cases they work perfectly - it just put me off.
Wasn't user error though, the seller confirmed it was borked. Apparently it had been tested before it was sent and was fine, but had somehow got messed up during posting.
As Master clock (those which have midi clock) are ok (505 the best even as slave AFAIK) but as slave these are PITA most of the time. These weren't designed for more than guitar practice until the 300 and even so there were a bit buggy. Even the rc505 bricks time to time in the worst moment (I stated before some professional beatbox loopers I have as friends told me about how big ones over them carry 3 or more units just as backup for that reason. Facts not opinions) so the hope is Roland updating/ed firmwares to improve these little drawbacks since that info is about 2 years old maybe... Obviously these are powerusers with regular gigs and high performance demand not busking.
quantiloop is awesome! U could check something like 12 step or softstep from Keith Mcmillen but here are others. For the ipad I use the iconnectivity audio 4+ cuz you can route anything anywhere. Great little gem.
Excellent question....and one I’m confused about. I don’t have an iPad, but do have a fairly decent MacBook, which I haven’t used much (got it for video editing). So I read that Quantiloop only works with iPads?
I read that Garage Band isn’t that useful for live looping, but that Mainstage with Logic is designed for quick interface (hence my question about Apogee Gio).
You'll need to be more specific about what you want to do in order to get 'good' specific recommendations. What do you need to plug in? How many different things at once? How much control over the looping do you need? For instance, there are great 3-4 pedal bluetooth controllers (no wires!) but, depending on what you want to do, that might not be enough. There are 'classic', powerful MIDI foot controllers like the Behringer FCB-1010 but some of those require a hardware MIDI port. So that decision would change your...
Thanks for all the info. I need to sit down and explore this forum over the weekend.
I will need to only plug in one or two things at a time. I will be playing electric bass, guitar, and need a microphone (drums, vocals and other).
Thanks for taking the time to guide me....
Thank you. I am overwhelmed by the willingness of folks to help me on this journey.
Welcome to the forum
I agree with all other comments. The easiest and plug and play way is hardware looper pedal: easier to use and learn, just plug and play. Note that a guitar pedal will need at minimum a switchable HiZ/line input with a separate mic preamp if you want to record your voice, percussions etc. Or you can get a looper pedalboard/workstation with built in mic preamps.
The limitation with hardware is in playing backing/triggerable loops in addition to recorded loops, managing several songs easily, etc. This is where iOS or a laptop is interesting. You can do much more complex stuff. Keep in mind that iOS or laptop looper apps have deep learning curve if you want to do advanced looping. On iOS you will need to become familiar with setups like Audiobus/AUM/Loopy, and learn everything about routing, midi learn and how to set complex looping capabilities for your exact needs. Same thing for Ableton Live on laptop.
You will need to know what you want to do exactly. For example, if you want to being able to loop all in real-time your voice, guitar, percussion, keyboard, etc as you said in your first post, you will need to find a way to it. That can be a hardware looper pedalboard which allows for recording different inputs on individual looper slots. I don’t know if the Boss can do that. Using an iPad or a laptop, you will need an audio interface with several inputs, and to assign different looper slots to different audio inputs and midi pedalboard buttons. In Ableton Live, that’s not too much hard to do. In iOS Loopy it’s very complicated, you will need for example a custom MidiFire script which allows to trigger AUM busses to send various inputs to Audiobus/Loopy at the same time you record in a dedicated Loopy slot. All those actions should be automated when you trigger your midi pedalboard buttons. Quantiloop will be much more friendly to do that: 4 looper slots for 4 different inputs, that can be audio physical inputs or apps.
BlueBoard is not very expensive, wireless and will work with both iOS devices and your MacBook. It will be a good match with Quantiloop Pro is you go iOS and want to loop several sources. I don’t use it and prefer Loopy for what I need to do, but QLP is the best suited app for multi sources.
I myself prefer the software looper iOS or laptop capabilities, a hardware can’t fit my needs, and I love music software. Your choice really has to do with your needs. Note that you can also get Ableton Live demo on your Mac to try some things with looper device.
I think you would like a software looper give your requirements. Loopy is a great start. Quantiloop is also powerful. A blueboard if start/stop hands free and a good audio interface for the mic’s and instruments. If you want a lot of lines active buy an interface with the right specs for that.
And also, have you got an iPhone? Loopy and Quantiloop are universal so can try them on the phone, before getting eventually an iPad. Quantiloop has even a free limited version.
If practice (with instrument) and fun is the main goal this means for me hardware. Just plug and play.
For improvising most of them are ok, hard or soft... but for working on songs then things get a bit more complex. Let's continue diggin...
Again hardware instruments or software instruments? iOS is mother of all rabbit holes in possibilities and alongside in possible issues. Take a paper and draw what you envision from the void (a mic, a guitar and a looper) into the madness (whatever you can imagine build from your usual sonic sources.
This point me towards my last lusting finding...
Digitech Trio+. In the conclusions I will put you a video.
With that budget you can even go for a Octatrack. There is a great forum post about someone with similar question like you but with that in focus instead Rcs. Elektron is father of rabbit holes too...
So... Did you tried Ableton live? There are some nice workflows from iOS apps due Ableton export API making things very clever. With the proper OS you can even airdrop these projects from the iDevice into the desktop. Apps like BlocsWave can help with the other backing parts such drums, bass or cinematic strings but its approach is not so live being more songwritter but you can start with Blocs (with Ableton Link* in the background) synced into loopyHD (or Quantiloop or GroupTheLoop or... or...) and get fun looping over a backtrack to later export the loops into Blocs to make some song parts (it call this scenes) to end (ableton...) exporting to Ableton through airdrop and end in the desktop... sky (and your taste) is the limit.
About controller combos it dependes on the main workflow. I have some controllers just for the iPad mini4 (inside a iTrack dock) and I plain buy some others maybe... something with buttons (or footpedals) and sliders (or expression pedals) could do the job.
Another possible workflow could be Garageband (iOS) into Garagaband/Logic. The iOS version has Live Loops which is a great tool for fun and songwritting. The drawback is the lack of midi control. You have just the screen to manage certain things.
I mentioned the Digitech Trio+ (I had open a topic for it) since I find it has the best of GTL and bots into a affordable footpedal. It also has SD to manage songs (up to 13) and loop recordings. It has its limitations of course but it's enough cheap to consider it maybe as piece in looping party with friends since it doesn't require a lot of practice to get good results (aka instant gratification) so take a look into the topic.
I also did mention about Ableton Link which as Ableton Export doesn't require Ableton at all. These are open tools Ableton released to sync with it but also between apps so you can sync more than one device (iOS and desktops) sharing the wifi. It's certainly a Godsent.
You are welcome. I enjoy helping others in the journeys I share and helps me to structure my own ideas and workflows. Here we have amazing users and lots of Loopy fans so I hope this info help the most people it can.
If you get concise/focused questions just drop them and let's enjoy and share experience/knowledge. I expend 15 years in the topic but I still learn things and discover amazing people day by day.
I&I
That's the 360 degree view from Mt. Looper! Nice work covering all the options in the hardware space.
@TheDubbyLabby about Digitechtrio+ I’ve looked at this one since you’ve mentioned it in my other thread.
I can miss something but it seems to me that drum, bass etc are built in styles right? You can’t define your own styles with your own audio loops production? This is limitation for me as I want to play my own music, even for backing loops. Perhaps I’ve not understand correctly how this device works.
I’ve used AB/AUM/Loopy with a complex setup for one year with near to zero issues. It took perhaps one or two months to elaborate my setup, and since that I just load my AB setup and have reliable and fun playing and looping.
But, my biggest concern with real live situations and software rigs is of course stability. More complex setups means more crashes possibilities. Even if that works perfectly well at home doesn’t means it will works the same on stage. With stress you can make mistakes, or there is heat especially with iOS devices which can leads to huge problems on stage. So I’m also in search of a hardware alternative, just in case software is not that reliable in real situation. Long story short I need Ableton Live in a pedalboard: my own backing loops, audio recording, enough buttons to trigger at least 4 instrumental loops and one or two individual audio loopers, and enough song storage.
Yes this is one of the limitations but if you pre-set the parts (up to 5 per song) and select the proper style (sometimes the names aren't true descriptive) it could do a ok job for cover songs. Check some real use of the styles at this YT channel to get a better idea of what is suitable for.
Said that... In your case I will look into the Beatbuddy (also in that topic) since it has what you are searching (own loops, different riffs based on the time signature you push the pedal, midi etc) and also EHX pedal family. They have some interesting pedals being this the last monster.
This is why we call it journey. If one wants to go to the moon or just play in home... s/he has all the spectrum from the first travel to the whole life crafting the best rocket...
) but obviously self-satisfaction lives inside own_self_ so all of us have lost in space searching for the best travel 
As compass I recommend the mantra IAATM (pronunced IAAOMMM and containing the deepest drop of knowledge: It's All About The Music
Totally agreed.
I will say Pioneer Djs1000 or new Akai Force (details in the NAMM topic or blogsphere) and pedalboard of your choice... but up to 1000€ so alternative it's just a mac mini with ehem illegal ehem Ableton lite, liteee liteeee and get to minimum, or Stagelight... IDK this is hard and expensive. Also the octatrack as we can learn in the other topic (never were my cup of tea but it was mainly by price and workflow, now we have new contenders maybe it worth the effort learn about it's possibilities... or cheap mpc live now people are getting rid of them to buy The Force...
In the end I try to apply Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do philosophy to everything and try to simplify the most my soul let me. That's why I use GTL as backtrack (that and the fact I'm getting older and more conservative) instead experimental but that's my choice nothing else.
I will review the options once again (I had obsessive compulsion and probably Asperger which made me study philosophy since my 15, not since 15 years... lol I'm 38 for the interested in maths
) to find if there is any other tool who can fit better the task since I'm less active the last years (using iOS and lowering my looping needs) and I couldn't be the best opinion for certain approaches.
Well I'm also an enthusiast so for anyone interested in the roots of the concept itself search for Musique Concrete and The San Francisco Tape Music Center. I even found a possible connection between those and Scratch Perry (and King DTubby)
Food for though (and connection to some actual topics)
(2006 video but I can assure you it's older from 2002 or even before, Live 5 and Bome Midi translator)
Let's going on with practical things about the topic
Also let me put this here and out of the last comment...
Thanks Bruce (I was in Viet Vo Dao practice when younger, I’m receptive!!). I will take a deeper look to Electro-Harmonix EHX-95000, I like the concept and size. Need to see how is midi control
@feldspar1333 If you own a Mac already, I really have to point you at this great freeware:
) and connect it to the left button switch pins on the pcb of an old USB or Bluetooth mouse, move the mouse pointer to where you want it on the screen and use the foot switch to trigger the action. (note that some buttons react upon press, others upon release).
for how it looks in use.
http://essej.net/sooperlooper/index.html
I suggest trying to get along with this one first. You will learn a lot about looping and setting everything up. If you're not yet willing to spend any cash for a switch pedal yet, just take a simple footswitch (everybody has one sleeping in the closet
See
Otherwise, Ableton Live (Lite) can be used as a looper as well, not as tailor-made as Sooper Looper out-of-the-box but there's a number of great free addins and projects available and you've got a huge arsenal of tools to go further with your recorded audio.
Honestly, I'd prefer to buy the big "Suite" version of Ableton Live plus a Push 2 controller plus a second-hand Macbook (or a Windows tablet or a new Windows laptop) for the price of Akai's Force.
You'll have a tiltable, nice large screen that the Force hasn't.
And in Ableton you can map a different function to almost every key on the computer keyboard.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/30845/ios-looper-audiobus-aum-loopy-blueboard-how-to-use-them-with-audiobus-preset
I hate both but I felt it was good to share it due it’s going to be a good seller. I hope djs1000 gets forgotten as fail and get one for peanuts
I just use Ableton for export from Blocs but maybe I will start hosting Blocs inside garageband and go that route. Harmotools can change my mind... this is too hard shit.
I need to work on my keytar and keep practicing, seriously...