Bitwig 3 enter the Grid!

Littlewoodg

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:
Having a lot of fun learning Modular using the Grid. The way Bitwig have implemented this for me just clicks and I'm getting some fab module builds out of it.

I find it a lot easier to get to grips with than VCV Rack or Softube Modular.

+1
It’s incredibly well figured out, and so smooth on a touch UI. Next gen virtual modular for screens, puts the skeuomorphic modulars In the rear view

@Littlewoodg Haven’t tried my Microsoft Pro pen with it yet can you use it to draw in connections that would be cool? Hope they add a favourites category for modules or a search function. Only had a few hours with it, it’s great trying out all the modules. Fab they added a sampler one in.

I’ve just been using my finger which is most excellent (I laundered my pen within a week of getting it)

@JohnnyGoodyear In terms of my learning curve I think this one has a leg up on S_nV_x, the help button that takes you to a page of info for each module is quite amazing - demoed in the intro video which is also a great launchpad. Also they’ve got an any cable almost anywhere build, so there’s often no wrong answer. There’s been a lot of consideration built in, towards helping people enter their system, and modular generally, more so than I’ve seen elsewhere

Thank you. An answer that makes sense/gives confidence. Here's a slightly more tricky question, or perhaps just more personal: Do you think this is suited better to song-writing or music making (I know they're similar, but I think you know what I'm driving at; I know you are fond of FL and thus I'm interested where BW fits in your own work/creativity etc...)

I think I’m at a much earlier stage, comfort wise with FL 20, than Bitwig, though I can offer some notes on comparison. Bitwig has both clip launch and traditional timeline UI’s, while FL’s default mode is for me yet another beast entirely. FL workflow is it’s own thing, and tons of people find it smooth and delicious but I’m far from fluid in it. Their mobile is in many ways much more traditional and accessible for me, and that is often how I get something going in FL 20. Im still learning FL 20, and there’s a lot of people on the forum that can speak more usefully to its usefulness. Plus, the kids love it!

Bitwig seems more traditionally accessible for songwriters, where FL still is (for me) about building with loops/clips - yes people make songs that way but that’s still a stretch for me conceptually. Beats and loops, ultra fun yes, verse/chorus/bridge etc, not as much (again, me)

So me, I’d give the songwriting nod to Bitwig. That Bitwig also will, after the beta, have an ultra cool modular framework for doing all kids of stuff (building instruments, fx, sequencers, generative toys etc etc) is an additional entry point for fun. Even before the Grid arrived, it’s been most often while playing in Bitwig on the Surface Pro (among all my other DAWs on that platform) that I say to myself “what the hell am I still doing on iPad when I’ve got this?” (But of course other goodies/workflows bring me back to iPad eventually)

Very interesting. And a very generous response, thank you. You confirm what I suspect that Bitwig might be the better fit for me (despite the fact that the 16 year old next door is killing it on FL). Of course I'd rather NOT pay 400 bucks to find out, BUT I have a new Surface Book 2 that is begging for something beyond Adobe Audition Yes, I'm enjoying using the software with Maschine Mk3, but it's really making me think I have to be a big boy and settle on a DAW. Thanks again, really appreciate your insight.

Hope it helps
The beauty of soft wares like these 2 and most other big boy stuff is the opportunity to demo cost free, and peruse the YouTube resources.
There are so many DAWs...
Another one to look at, if I may muddy the waters a bit, is the sleeper MultiTrackStudio- $120 for the full featured version, Mac or PC, lifetime free updates (like FL20) and it has direct export of projects started on iPad (actually projects can go back and forth). The iPad all-featured version comes in at about $50 bucks. it’s got its own workflow, learning curve, idiosyncrasies, but in terms of songwriting it’s very straightforward. It’s touch enabled for your Surface as well. Aside from tracker madness, those are the three PC DAWs I’m in most often (FL 20, Bitwig, and MTS). All demo-able...
Keep me posted.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Littlewoodg said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:
Having a lot of fun learning Modular using the Grid. The way Bitwig have implemented this for me just clicks and I'm getting some fab module builds out of it.

I find it a lot easier to get to grips with than VCV Rack or Softube Modular.

+1
It’s incredibly well figured out, and so smooth on a touch UI. Next gen virtual modular for screens, puts the skeuomorphic modulars In the rear view

@Littlewoodg Haven’t tried my Microsoft Pro pen with it yet can you use it to draw in connections that would be cool? Hope they add a favourites category for modules or a search function. Only had a few hours with it, it’s great trying out all the modules. Fab they added a sampler one in.

I’ve just been using my finger which is most excellent (I laundered my pen within a week of getting it)

@JohnnyGoodyear In terms of my learning curve I think this one has a leg up on S_nV_x, the help button that takes you to a page of info for each module is quite amazing - demoed in the intro video which is also a great launchpad. Also they’ve got an any cable almost anywhere build, so there’s often no wrong answer. There’s been a lot of consideration built in, towards helping people enter their system, and modular generally, more so than I’ve seen elsewhere

Thank you. An answer that makes sense/gives confidence. Here's a slightly more tricky question, or perhaps just more personal: Do you think this is suited better to song-writing or music making (I know they're similar, but I think you know what I'm driving at; I know you are fond of FL and thus I'm interested where BW fits in your own work/creativity etc...)

I think I’m at a much earlier stage, comfort wise with FL 20, than Bitwig, though I can offer some notes on comparison. Bitwig has both clip launch and traditional timeline UI’s, while FL’s default mode is for me yet another beast entirely. FL workflow is it’s own thing, and tons of people find it smooth and delicious but I’m far from fluid in it. Their mobile is in many ways much more traditional and accessible for me, and that is often how I get something going in FL 20. Im still learning FL 20, and there’s a lot of people on the forum that can speak more usefully to its usefulness. Plus, the kids love it!

Bitwig seems more traditionally accessible for songwriters, where FL still is (for me) about building with loops/clips - yes people make songs that way but that’s still a stretch for me conceptually. Beats and loops, ultra fun yes, verse/chorus/bridge etc, not as much (again, me)

So me, I’d give the songwriting nod to Bitwig. That Bitwig also will, after the beta, have an ultra cool modular framework for doing all kids of stuff (building instruments, fx, sequencers, generative toys etc etc) is an additional entry point for fun. Even before the Grid arrived, it’s been most often while playing in Bitwig on the Surface Pro (among all my other DAWs on that platform) that I say to myself “what the hell am I still doing on iPad when I’ve got this?” (But of course other goodies/workflows bring me back to iPad eventually)

Very interesting. And a very generous response, thank you. You confirm what I suspect that Bitwig might be the better fit for me (despite the fact that the 16 year old next door is killing it on FL). Of course I'd rather NOT pay 400 bucks to find out, BUT I have a new Surface Book 2 that is begging for something beyond Adobe Audition Yes, I'm enjoying using the software with Maschine Mk3, but it's really making me think I have to be a big boy and settle on a DAW. Thanks again, really appreciate your insight.

Hope it helps
The beauty of soft wares like these 2 and most other big boy stuff is the opportunity to demo cost free, and peruse the YouTube resources.
There are so many DAWs...
Another one to look at, if I may muddy the waters a bit, is the sleeper MultiTrackStudio- $120 for the full featured version, Mac or PC, lifetime free updates (like FL20) and it has direct export of projects started on iPad (actually projects can go back and forth). The iPad all-featured version comes in at about $50 bucks. it’s got its own workflow, learning curve, idiosyncrasies, but in terms of songwriting it’s very straightforward. It’s touch enabled for your Surface as well. Aside from tracker madness, those are the three PC DAWs I’m in most often (FL 20, Bitwig, and MTS). All demo-able...
Keep me posted.

I will Captain, I will. And a big HA! on MTS which I have fully on the iPad but have never slid across the surface on. Yet. Will now.

supadom

@lukesleepwalker said:
Looks like Drambo!

This is why we're still waiting for it.

lukesleepwalker

@supadom said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Looks like Drambo!

This is why we're still waiting for it.

indeed, it has taken on a life of its own.

ohwell

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:

@Littlewoodg said:

@Jumpercollins said:
Having a lot of fun learning Modular using the Grid. The way Bitwig have implemented this for me just clicks and I'm getting some fab module builds out of it.

I find it a lot easier to get to grips with than VCV Rack or Softube Modular.

+1
It’s incredibly well figured out, and so smooth on a touch UI. Next gen virtual modular for screens, puts the skeuomorphic modulars In the rear view

@Littlewoodg Haven’t tried my Microsoft Pro pen with it yet can you use it to draw in connections that would be cool? Hope they add a favourites category for modules or a search function. Only had a few hours with it, it’s great trying out all the modules. Fab they added a sampler one in.

I’ve just been using my finger which is most excellent (I laundered my pen within a week of getting it)

@JohnnyGoodyear In terms of my learning curve I think this one has a leg up on S_nV_x, the help button that takes you to a page of info for each module is quite amazing - demoed in the intro video which is also a great launchpad. Also they’ve got an any cable almost anywhere build, so there’s often no wrong answer. There’s been a lot of consideration built in, towards helping people enter their system, and modular generally, more so than I’ve seen elsewhere

Thank you. An answer that makes sense/gives confidence. Here's a slightly more tricky question, or perhaps just more personal: Do you think this is suited better to song-writing or music making (I know they're similar, but I think you know what I'm driving at; I know you are fond of FL and thus I'm interested where BW fits in your own work/creativity etc...)

I think I’m at a much earlier stage, comfort wise with FL 20, than Bitwig, though I can offer some notes on comparison. Bitwig has both clip launch and traditional timeline UI’s, while FL’s default mode is for me yet another beast entirely. FL workflow is it’s own thing, and tons of people find it smooth and delicious but I’m far from fluid in it. Their mobile is in many ways much more traditional and accessible for me, and that is often how I get something going in FL 20. Im still learning FL 20, and there’s a lot of people on the forum that can speak more usefully to its usefulness. Plus, the kids love it!

Bitwig seems more traditionally accessible for songwriters, where FL still is (for me) about building with loops/clips - yes people make songs that way but that’s still a stretch for me conceptually. Beats and loops, ultra fun yes, verse/chorus/bridge etc, not as much (again, me)

So me, I’d give the songwriting nod to Bitwig. That Bitwig also will, after the beta, have an ultra cool modular framework for doing all kids of stuff (building instruments, fx, sequencers, generative toys etc etc) is an additional entry point for fun. Even before the Grid arrived, it’s been most often while playing in Bitwig on the Surface Pro (among all my other DAWs on that platform) that I say to myself “what the hell am I still doing on iPad when I’ve got this?” (But of course other goodies/workflows bring me back to iPad eventually)

Very interesting. And a very generous response, thank you. You confirm what I suspect that Bitwig might be the better fit for me (despite the fact that the 16 year old next door is killing it on FL). Of course I'd rather NOT pay 400 bucks to find out, BUT I have a new Surface Book 2 that is begging for something beyond Adobe Audition Yes, I'm enjoying using the software with Maschine Mk3, but it's really making me think I have to be a big boy and settle on a DAW. Thanks again, really appreciate your insight.

I’ve been on bigwig since the 2.0 release. I purchased a 1 year plan with a student discount, and have not regretted it one bit. I will renew my plan for the first time when 3.0 comes out. I was quite a happy camper with bitwig 2+ because I wanted something that combines clip view + linear timeline (like ableton live); the incredible modulation system, and the price after student discount made it more attractive than live at the time.

How important is the clip launching view to you? If you are primarily looking for a daw that’s great for linear arrangement (timeline view), you might want to consider spending time with the free 60 day evaluation for Reaper before making a decision. IMO, for linear arranging, Reaper is a top contender for a fraction of the price of everything else. As much a I love bitwig, the 400$ + 170$/year afterwards might not be worth it if a linear daw is what you want, and Reaper suits your needs. (Even more so considering you already have maschine...)

Re 3.0 and modular. I’ve been very excited about the workflow bitwig 3.0 appears to bring to digital modular. However, I frankly wouldn’t be ready to take the plunge for access to the grid if I had to purchase a full license for 400. For that much money, I’d want to wait to see what happens with VCV rack 1.0 and 2.0 first. Thing is, VCV rack is about to hit v1.0, and the dev hinted that 2.0 should come soon after (pay for upgrade with extensive integration for any daw through vst plugins.) (Their financing model is: keep standalone, fully functional core of VCV rack free and open source; offer some premium features like the plugin version of VCV for money to support ongoing development of the core, open source platform.)

In many ways, VCV rack’s whole approach of staying as true to a hardware eurorack UI as possible makes it the polar opposite of the grid’s UI. But VCV’s UI has its own upside: directly transferable skills between hardware eurorack and VCV. Heck, VCV has been worth using even just for the Mutable Instruments ports; and you can start to learn those modules inside out from the many excellent videos on their hardware versions. TBH, I suspect VCV rack will be

Really don’t mean to be dissing Bitwig - I’m an enthusiast myself. But without unlimited funds it might be worth looking at Reaper (+ maschine, + perhaps VCV rack) first. With the fully functional 60 day free demo, there’s virtually no downside.

JohnnyGoodyear

@ohwell

I really appreciate your well thought out/detailed comments. I suspect your instinct is a good one as regards my desire/suitability for a DAW that favors the more linear approach. At root I am a songwriter and for all the fun of clips and loops I need to remember that

Reaper is an interesting idea and I will look into it further. For now the estimable @Littlewoodg has nudged me towards having a look at MultiTrackStudio as well and the fact that projects can apparently be shared seamlessly between iPad and PC is an enormous hunk of attractive bait to me. I am more comfortable on iOS and have so many resources already that being able to easily switch back and forth is a big deal. BUT I haven't used MTS on my iPad yet, so will put aside the next week or so to seeing how comfortable I can become with it.

Many thanks again for your insight.

Jumpercollins

Bitwig Studio 3 beta just been updated to beta 2. for anyone who’s testing.

Telstar5

@Littlewoodg : Do you find yourself using Bitwig more or MTS?

Littlewoodg

Lately been using MTS mostly on iOS, and Bitwig on PC...lately not working with the cross platform benefits of MTS so much. And getting more done on MTS on iOS than Bitwig on PC.