Creating Orchestral Sections using solo instruments in Auria

Sorry I duplicated this post in creations and don’t know how to delete one :(

Hi. I’m trying to do the above, layering a few tracks of orchestral instruments to create a section, in auria. I recorded a midi ifretless brass track with a solo trumpet. I could play the part and record it numerous times but want to try layering by copying the original part. If I just bounce manually to other tracks it sounds terrible, no width or dimension, lots of little resonance spikes, so I tried messing with eq variations and reverb variations in each track, and this didn’t really help. This was just my first experiment as I kind of new this would happen from years of doubling vocals etc. My thought is , and I think I’ve read someone suggesting similar, to introduce very very slight changes in each part/tracks position in te timeline, couple of nanoseconds etc. I have read somewhere on here at some point, someone saying you could create very minor latency differences per track in auria to achieve this but I have no idea how - someone probably looking to do the same as me. I’m not sure if there’s a setting you can just alter per track or if they meant you can alter te latency incrementally each time you go to manually bounce a track to another or something.

I’m curious as to whether anyone knows if this is the best method of achieving what I’m aiming for? I have heard a fantastic piece with sections built from layered solo swam parts but not sure how this was done, whether you really do have to re-record each time. If you do, you do but thought I should try different method first :)

As an aside, just having read mcdtracys amazing patch thread using streambyter I wonder if there could be a streambyter patch designed to do just this? To play one note in multiple minutely varied timings when it’s pressed so you could easily record a section.

Comments

  • You could try messing around with the non-destructive MIDI randomisation in the Auria Channel strip, just apply different amounts to each track before bouncing to audio. Although I would think recording several actual performances would work better.

  • @richardyot said:
    You could try messing around with the non-destructive MIDI randomisation in the Auria Channel strip, just apply different amounts to each track before bouncing to audio. Although I would think recording several actual performances would work better.

    Love this because I've never even noticed that in Auria before :) Thanks!

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @richardyot said:
    You could try messing around with the non-destructive MIDI randomisation in the Auria Channel strip, just apply different amounts to each track before bouncing to audio. Although I would think recording several actual performances would work better.

    Love this because I've never even noticed that in Auria before :) Thanks!

    Non-destructive quantize, randomisation and groove templates. No other DAW on iOS has got this stuff (well GB does have the non-destructive quantize, but not the other two). And then if you look at the destructive options in the Process menu there's even more stuff to be found.

  • @richardyot said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @richardyot said:
    You could try messing around with the non-destructive MIDI randomisation in the Auria Channel strip, just apply different amounts to each track before bouncing to audio. Although I would think recording several actual performances would work better.

    Love this because I've never even noticed that in Auria before :) Thanks!

    Non-destructive quantize, randomisation and groove templates. No other DAW on iOS has got this stuff (well GB does have the non-destructive quantize, but not the other two). And then if you look at the destructive options in the Process menu there's even more stuff to be found.

    goes off to have a right noodle about

  • I'm sure many people here would find a brief tutorial useful, if anyone has time to write it.

  • @wingwizard said:
    I wonder if there could be a streambyter patch designed to do just this? To play one note in multiple minutely varied timings when it’s pressed so you could easily record a section.

    I'm just learning StreamByter but I do know that you can take a MIDI event and clone it with a delay with 1 millisec as the smallest value. So it might make sense to run 2-3 instances of an AUv3 loaded with the same instrument and vary the MIDI stream to each by 1 ms and see what you get. The headaches would be if you didn't have AUv3's but just IAA Apps and if the combined RAM use of the three instruments exceeds the 340MB (is that the right number?) limit for all instances of an AUv3 App which means the DAW has to crash one or maybe all instances.

    But that Auria option is probably the sweetest and least complex to implement. I wonder what a "Phaser" does in practice? It takes a signal and delays it briefly and mixes it back with the source and produces "phasing effects" like you see when you drive past an orchard of trees... additional frequencies added to the composite. I think some Apps to make multi-tracks composites would slow or speed up the track minutely to avoid phasing effects. Is there a vocal processing App for IOS that could be used for this "string section" sound?

    Someone will know... but are they reading this thread?

  • @richardyot said:
    You could try messing around with the non-destructive MIDI randomisation in the Auria Channel strip, just apply different amounts to each track before bouncing to audio. Although I would think recording several actual performances would work better.

    Thank you, I’ll have a look at this!

  • edited January 9

    @McDtracy said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I wonder if there could be a streambyter patch designed to do just this? To play one note in multiple minutely varied timings when it’s pressed so you could easily record a section.

    I'm just learning StreamByter but I do know that you can take a MIDI event and clone it with a delay with 1 millisec as the smallest value. So it might make sense to run 2-3 instances of an AUv3 loaded with the same instrument and vary the MIDI stream to each by 1 ms and see what you get. The headaches would be if you didn't have AUv3's but just IAA Apps and if the combined RAM use of the three instruments exceeds the 340MB (is that the right number?) limit for all instances of an AUv3 App which means the DAW has to crash one or maybe all instances.

    But that Auria option is probably the sweetest and least complex to implement. I wonder what a "Phaser" does in practice? It takes a signal and delays it briefly and mixes it back with the source and produces "phasing effects" like you see when you drive past an orchard of trees... additional frequencies added to the composite. I think some Apps to make multi-tracks composites would slow or speed up the track minutely to avoid phasing effects. Is there a vocal processing App for IOS that could be used for this "string section" sound?

    Someone will know... but are they reading this thread?

    Thank you. The multi delay option occurred to me just after I’d posted, and I suddenly felt a bit silly. :) I then messed about with instances of disccord4 or whatever it’s called by audio damage and honestly, got some really nice results. It’s interesting what you’re saying about phasing because I think this is related to the nasty resonance effects you get. I would have liked to use the viryn harmony8 or something but... that raft of virsyn harmony effects are among the worst and most unusable effects on iOS. I don’t know why they just sound horrendous reedy and metallic. I think it’s phasing now you’ve described it. Tap delay is great though imo. Bit audio damage was lovely

  • Dischord4 looks good. Are you getting a section sound after processing a solo instrument preset?

    I noticed 4Pockets has a reasonably priced Multi-tap Delay AU $5 and a Pitch Shifter AU $5.

    I think I already own Dischord4 but can you have enough FX to solve problems? Or make new problems?

  • edited January 10

    @McDtracy said:
    Dischord4 looks good. Are you getting a section sound after processing a solo instrument preset?

    I noticed 4Pockets has a reasonably priced Multi-tap Delay AU $5 and a Pitch Shifter AU $5.

    I think I already own Dischord4 but can you have enough FX to solve problems? Or make new problems?

    It’s really clean, and I know virsyn has more delays but it just sounds woeful in comparison. Maybe I should have tried with just a couple of delays in harmony8 but I don’t trust them anymore as I bought a number of their effects which aside from tap delay all sounded incredibly poor. I’m just mentioning because the cleanness of audio damage stuff means I wasn’t introducing any more problems. In fact it sidestepped those of layering tracks. Someone else mentioned that you can go into the channel strip in Auria and midi section and mess with the quantise and stuff by increments,

    Dischord4 thickened up the sound in a lovely way. I’m still not sure how I’ll build sections but it makes isymphonic sections sound really nice, and the Haas effect works on solos. I’m really unsure about section building, to me it just sounds louder rather than being a section and I’m not sure if that’s the case or my listening too closely. But then I need to do some research on how sections work, are composed, what gives them their distinct quality. I’m wondering if there’s a bleed effect in recording many instruments at once that can’t be simulated by separate tracks of solos, if the instruments are playing the same part anyway

    Would be interested in anyone’s experience with the 4pockets one. I saw another but you could only adjust each pitch by half a step. Edit: I confused myself spending all day on it haha the pitch isn’t what matters but timing increments

  • @wingwizard said:
    the pitch isn’t what matters but timing increments

    If you can shift the pitch of one track just slightly (definately not by a 1/2 step but just a few cycles/second) you insure no phasing and create a thicker sound I think. I need to look at my delay and see if one offers a range of Millisecond offsets in the single digits to see what it does.

    Many FX also have a "detune" setting which will help test pitch shifting between 2 tracks that are in all other ways identical.

Sign In or Register to comment.