Fake “timestretch” workaround in Nanostudio 2

edited December 2018 in App Tips and Tricks

Wanted to do this video for a long time just always was too lazy or too busy .. or both :))

It’s workaround trick how to create “timestretch” for drumloop in nanostudio... of course it’s not real timestretch :) But’s it’s nice workaround from dark ages of trackers, used it a lot in ‘90s :)

Hope it helps to somebody :) It’s useable mostly for drumloops, doesn’t work much for melodic loops but on other side for experimenting there are no boundaries :)

Btw. i used 1/64 notes in that video but because NS2 allows even 1/128 notes it is possible to use same method with even smaller “grain”

Regarding attack/decay settings, you don’t need change nothing, it works just fine with default Obsidian init patch settings, no clicks or pops

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Comments

  • Nice one @dendy - thanks for all of your NS2 help these past weeks!

  • @dendy What exactly are you doing? I can see sample start modulation and some waveform snippets on the timelime but from the vid it's not obvious how it works.

  • edited December 2018

    @rs2000 uhm :-) did you watch it with sound ? i suppose you don't have NS2 yet ?

    just asking, to khow deep i should explain it

  • @dendy said:
    @rs2000 uhm :-) did you watch it with sound ? i suppose you don't have NS2 yet ?

    Yes and yes :)

    just asking, to khow deep i should explain it

    A more detailed technical explanation would help me a lot 👍🏼

  • @rs2000 said:

    @dendy said:
    @rs2000 uhm :-) did you watch it with sound ? i suppose you don't have NS2 yet ?

    Yes and yes :)

    just asking, to khow deep i should explain it

    A more detailed technical explanation would help me a lot 👍🏼

    Yeah, because me too is ashame to admit: WTF happened...

  • edited December 2018

    Ok.. i hoped that it would be self-explanatory, my poor english doesn't allow me to speak some comments to video and lack of time (ok - lazyness :)) doesn't allow me to add subtitles :lol:

    First pattern in that video contains nomal drums edited as single notes played by Slate. Next pattern is just single sample loop played by Obsidian.

    Point is .. i loaded sample LOOP to Obsidian.. then i added short 1/64 notes to pattern and automated sample start, so every note starts on different position of that sample loop.. because they are very short, as playback goes you basically hear whole loop like it is played countinuously - every notes plays just very short part of that loop, one after one from beginning loop to its end.

    then there is automated tempo, to demostrate that when project tempo is speeding up (and slowing down at the end), loop is still played whole, like it would be played if there would be real timestretch applied - so it is not pitched up / down, it is played sill with same pitch just faster / slower ..

  • edited December 2018

    Aaaaah got it, thank you very much! The 64th notes looked like cut-up samples in an audio track so that's why I got irritated ;)
    I see now that it's MIDI notes.

  • @dendy said:
    :+1:

    Sounds surprisingly good btw.

  • edited December 2018

    @rs2000 said:
    Sounds surprisingly good btw.

    Actually i was surprised too :) I expected, before i tried it, that it would sound lot worse :lol:

    Btw same workflow, with 1/128 notes applied to melodic or vocal loops get interesting "grain-synthesis" effect or how to call it.. also very useable for experimental stuff :)

  • @dendy said:

    @rs2000 said:
    Sounds surprisingly good btw.

    Actually i was surprised too :) I expected, before i tried it, that it would sound lot worse :lol:

    Btw same workflow, with 1/128 notes applied to melodic or vocal loops get interesting "grain-synthesis" effect or how to call it.. also very useable for experimental stuff :)

    I love such experiments.
    Just tried different ways of note-based stretching in Groove Rider, and interestingly, in GR this method works best:

    • Slice a loop and make a pattern that plays the slices in the order you want
    • Enable the Amp EG and set the Attack=0 and Decay=45 (just a first guess)
    • Copy the pattern to a new track
    • In the copied pattern: Set each note to Stroke mode = "III"
    • Increase the EG Attack time to about 40
    • Play the pattern and adust both part levels
    • Fine-adjust Decay in the first ptn and Attack in the copied ptn
  • Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

  • edited December 2018

    @Cib said:
    Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

    In GR you would simply change the pitch of both oscillators and the loop will play at the same speed with different pitch.
    In NS2 I guess you'd simply change the oscillator pitch too, right dendy? ;)

  • I posted exactly this on the NS1 forums back in 2011 :D

  • @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:
    Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

    In GR you would simply change the pitch of both oscillators and the loop will play at the same speed with different pitch.
    In NS2 I guess you'd simply change the oscillator pitch too, right dendy? ;)

    Not sure. So if you change the pitch you also change the attack times etc. so the main speed?

  • edited December 2018

    @rs2000
    In NS2 I guess you'd simply change the oscillator pitch too, right dendy?

    you just play different notes :) see bellow

    @Cib said:
    Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

    actuall this works out of box too :) just play different notes in that 1/64 row :))

    likethis:

    of course, because it is not real timestretch, it sounds far away from perfect, it’s more useable for experimental purposes

    here audio example where i used arpeggio synth loop instead of beat - first 2 bars is original loop (not sliced to notes), then pause and then loop sliced to notes transposed like on that screenshot, played on various project tempos..

    probably it can be a bit improved by fine tunning attack decay time but currently i have not time to play with it ..

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ednguycrnpj0wac/TimeStretchEmulation.wav?dl=0

  • @dendy said:

    @rs2000
    In NS2 I guess you'd simply change the oscillator pitch too, right dendy?

    you just play different notes :) see bellow

    @Cib said:
    Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

    actuall this works out of box too :) just play different notes in that 1/64 row :))

    likethis:

    of course, because it is not real timestretch, it sounds far away from perfect, it’s more useable for experimental purposes

    here audio example where i used arpeggio synth loop instead of beat - first 2 bars is original loop (not sliced to notes), then pause and then loop sliced to notes transposed like on that screenshot, played on various project tempos..

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ednguycrnpj0wac/TimeStretchEmulation.wav?dl=0

    That´s nice. I think it´s usable if you stay within an octave to cover at least all keys in equal temperament.

  • edited December 2018

    That´s nice. I think it´s usable if you stay within an octave to cover at least all keys in equal temperament.

    yeah .. or, as i said, if it is your intention to have it sounding a bit odd :) i'm pretty sure i will use it that way in some of my next psytrance tracks, if combine it with bpm synced lfo -> filter modulations, some bitcrushing, some delays let's say just on every 32th note - hmm.. i can imagine it will sound PRETTY much hallucinogenic :lol:

    damn.. never used any app with such enormous creativity inhibition factor :)

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:

    That´s nice. I think it´s usable if you stay within an octave to cover at least all keys in equal temperament.

    yeah .. or, as i said, if it is your intention to have it sounding a bit odd :) i'm pretty sure i will use it that way in some of my next psytrance tracks, if combine it with bpm synced lfo -> filter modulations, some bitcrushing, some delays let's say just on every 32th note - hmm.. i can imagine it will sound PRETTY much hallucinogenic :lol:

    While i don´t like the higher chip munk effect you really can get a certain grit if you slow down the pitch. Sometimes especially acoustic and organic sounds like a double bass or guitar can sound even more interesting here.
    I remember that one of my favorite things was in NS1 to load the nice piano sample/loop into Eden (f.e. my favorite preset the Octave Arp thing) and then just played octaves with it. I mostly do this in general also with arps. Using at least 3 octaves where you then play the next higher just with double the speed. It can sounds quite nice and complex and also moving these in the stereo field like an orchestra. Bass to the right, mids in the middle and highs on the left.

  • edited December 2018

    yeah, interesting ideas ... can't wait when you join NS2 users team :-) looking forward to your experiments !!!

    I have to challenge Matt to finish iPhone version asap, just specially for you :lol:

  • @dendy said:
    Ok.. i hoped that it would be self-explanatory, my poor english doesn't allow me to speak some comments to video and lack of time (ok - lazyness :)) doesn't allow me to add subtitles :lol:

    First pattern in that video contains nomal drums edited as single notes played by Slate. Next pattern is just single sample loop played by Obsidian.

    Point is .. i loaded sample LOOP to Obsidian.. then i added short 1/64 notes to pattern and automated sample start, so every note starts on different position of that sample loop.. because they are very short, as playback goes you basically hear whole loop like it is played countinuously - every notes plays just very short part of that loop, one after one from beginning loop to its end.

    then there is automated tempo, to demostrate that when project tempo is speeding up (and slowing down at the end), loop is still played whole, like it would be played if there would be real timestretch applied - so it is not pitched up / down, it is played sill with same pitch just faster / slower ..

    Mr Dendy, I still struggle with this...
    I have everything in the trackview, and I have knob1 as Sample Start, but, when I click the automation icon “Sample Start” is not present as an option to automate...?

    What have I missed on the way?

  • edited December 2018

    This is how it looks just now...





  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:
    yeah, interesting ideas ... can't wait when you join NS2 users team :-) looking forward to your experiments !!!

    I have to challenge Matt to finish iPhone version asap, just specially for you :lol:

    Lol ;) Looking forward. As an example (sorry i might posted it here already in another thread, can´t remember). This is mainly one performance preset where i just use these octaves thingie. So mainly playing 3 arps live with 3 or 4 note chord at best. Add some velocity randomization to filter or so and you are there. Maybe we have to use an extern arp (but there are ways to mimic an arp inside Obsidian as we know) but i bet you can get quite similar things with Obsidian. Ignore the second part which starts about 1:52 which was a layered pad experiment.

  • edited December 2018

    @ErrkaPetti
    I have everything in the trackview, and I have knob1 as Sample Start, but, when I click the automation icon “Sample Start” is not present as an option to automate...?

    I guess you are clicking on automation icon in sequencer view .. obsidian macros are automated inside pattern. You need go to inside pattern (where notes are), and click to autiomation icon there ... you will see kkob1 automation lane for sure there :)

    @cib yeah, that is great stuff ! i like it also musically not just from technical point of view, very very nice chillout tune

    what is that "P900" ? doesn't know that ..

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:

    @ErrkaPetti
    I have everything in the trackview, and I have knob1 as Sample Start, but, when I click the automation icon “Sample Start” is not present as an option to automate...?

    I guess you are clicking on automation icon in sequencer view .. obsidian macros are automated inside pattern. You need go to inside pattern (where notes are), and click to autiomation icon there ... you will see kkob1 automation lane for sure there :)

    @cib yeah, that is great stuff ! i like it also musically not just from technical point of view, very very nice chillout tune

    what is that "P900" ? doesn't know that ..

    Lol, it wasn´t a track at all but just another of my many synth demos and layering experiments which also translates of course into the iOS world and vice versa.
    P900 is a mac only modular synth which even was close to came to iOS (but that won´t happen anymore for some reasons). It is....was....my favorite (non)hybrid synth in general. Now Dune 3 is at the top (maybe because it´s fresh and new right now). P900 is mainly abandoned by now. One example of an outstanding brilliant one man love child project which sadly doesn´t make him rich and so he has to spend more time with his real job as senior developer somewhere. It´s like Model 15 plus Model D with better sound and the best sounding plate reverb ever in any software synth and best (or better said most musical) saturation i ever heard as well inside a synth.
    I´m scared about the day it will break and there will be no update. It also has some unsolved bugs.....but still i love the organic sound so much it ticks with my brainwaves :)
    A good overview here (but shows not the latest updates like a really awesome sequencer module and some more): :
    and the added modules after it:


    Sorry for the spam....it just hurts me that it was sooooo close to have on an iPad also. :s
    I love Moog for sure but this just sounds better, sorry.

  • @Cib said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:
    Nice....now when you think there are a million loops as .wav available it opens a wormhole.
    There are some great and nice vocal things and other niche loops i can´t find in any iOS app.
    This sound almost as good as apple loops....if you don´t go to far. I wonder if there is a similar trick to tune these....so mainly like apple loops are working.

    In GR you would simply change the pitch of both oscillators and the loop will play at the same speed with different pitch.
    In NS2 I guess you'd simply change the oscillator pitch too, right dendy? ;)

    Not sure. So if you change the pitch you also change the attack times etc. so the main speed?

    No because the loop is sliced already and the slice triggers won't change in time position.

  • @dendy said:

    @ErrkaPetti
    I have everything in the trackview, and I have knob1 as Sample Start, but, when I click the automation icon “Sample Start” is not present as an option to automate...?

    I guess you are clicking on automation icon in sequencer view .. obsidian macros are automated inside pattern. You need go to inside pattern (where notes are), and click to autiomation icon there ... you will see kkob1 automation lane for sure there :)

    @cib yeah, that is great stuff ! i like it also musically not just from technical point of view, very very nice chillout tune

    what is that "P900" ? doesn't know that ..

    Thanks mr Dendy!

    But still miss the target... :-(
    Do you set two automation points, one lowest and one higest value?
    I have four bars of drums, it that the problem?

    It must be some kind of blocking in my head just now...
    And, it’s not important just now, but, it would be nice to have this as an option in the future...

  • edited December 2018

    Do you set two automation points, one lowest and one higest value?

    yes, 0 at beginning of pattern, 100 at end of pattern ..

    of course you need to have exact 4 bars loop in your sample ! not with rail .. if your loop is 4 bars longs, also sampled loop version which you loaded into obsidian needs to be 4 bars longs .. if you rendered your initial sequence with tail, then open it in audio editor, turn on quantisation grid - set for example 1 bar quantisation, select 4 bars from beginning of loop and trim rest...

  • @dendy said:

    Do you set two automation points, one lowest and one higest value?

    yes, 0 at beginning of pattern, 100 at end of pattern ..

    of course you need to have exact 4 bars loop in your sample ! not with rail .. if your loop is 4 bars longs, also sampled loop version which you loaded into obsidian needs to be 4 bars longs .. if you rendered your initial sequence with tail, then open it in audio editor, turn on quantisation grid - set for example 1 bar quantisation, select 4 bars from beginning of loop and trim rest...

    Ok... Now it’s spot on! The wave (mixed down) has an tail that made the stem more than four bars...

  • edited December 2018

    if you want from some reason use also tail, you always need do math ... "100" in automation curve means "100%" - end of wave..

    so, for example if your loop is 4 bars long and then it cointains 1 bar long tail, you need adjust automation curve to 0-80 instead of 0-100 ;)

    (because in this case while loop length is 5 bars but you want loop just first 4... this means (100/5)*4 = 80 )

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