Many synths out of tune at 48khz sample rate

oddSTAR

@oddSTAR said:

@Rodolfo said:
Synthmaster Player has been updated to AU just a few days ago and I have comfirmed the issue but haven’t reported it yet. If someone knows the devs or they have an account here please tag them. I’ll send them a bug report later.

@kv331audio_bulent @kv331audio

I will re-check when I get home but really want to say I experienced the Stagelight sound shifting issue without any external synths involved--just using included drums and loops--but by plugging/unplugging my lightning connector earphones.

Circling back around, I was mistaken and was actually using SynthMaster One.

[Deleted User]

@gregsmith said:

@brambos said:
I’m fairly certain that Phasemaker adapts to samplerate changes on the fly. Which leads me to believe that Stagelight doesn’t call AllocateRenderResourcesAndReturnError() correctly when changing samplerates.

Edit: or the host is running at a different samplerate than was reported to the plugin...

This sounds like very useful information

@MatthewAtStagelight

Thanks! Will look into this.

[Deleted User]

Hey Everyone,

We're working on a solution to this in Stagelight now. Besides synths can we compile a list of AUv3 instruments and effects that exhibit the issue? So far we know the following instruments and effects are... affected

• Zeeon
• Laplace (and the other Ice Gear synths)
• Poison 202
• Phasemaker
• Unique
• Volt
• Syntronik
• Synthmaster Player
• DubStation

Any others?

dendy

.

dendy

. mistake post, sorry .

knewspeak

@Telefunky said:
In fact I was quite surprised and it should be considered that the converted (altered) signal was converted (altered) again to be able to phase out the original. So a single pass might even yield less than -60dB of difference, but only in the final half of the top octave.
No idea what was altered because I can't hear in that range of the spectrum

But do you actually hear it when it’s in context of the missing harmonic frequencies?

Telefunky

@knewspeak the section you quoted was about converting a 44.1 file to 48k, which then was converted back to the original 44.1 rate with Audioshare (which most likely just applies Apple's standard conversion routines).
These work almost instantanous with a remarkable quality - I never could tell the difference or any influence of the regular, 1 step conversion at all.

The double conversion process was necessary to get back to the original rate because you can't phase out 2 sources with different sample rates.
The phase-out test resulted in a -60 dB difference, but whatever gain I applied... it remained dead silent - I didn't hear anything even at -6dB

That's why I checked the frequency with a highcut filter, which revealed that ALL content of the 'difference signal' was beyond 16khz - a frequency range in which I'm 100% deaf.

It's safe to assume that the regular conversion results in even LESS than -60dB noise added to a spectral range, in which the human ear isn't particular sensitive anyway - so one can simply ignore it.
I really didn't expect such quality at all - or rather... I was shocked by that good result.

Regarding the topic: if you're in momentary trouble by the sample rate issue, just use Audioshare to convert to the proper rate. Other apps may do the same...

oddSTAR

• Synthmaster One (also KV331)

gregsmith

Rp-1 delay is out of sync (too fast). Same as dubstation 2

dendy

This is probably same core issue which we discussed here

https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/community/index.php?p=/discussion/439/list-of-plugins-with-problem-in-sample-rate-handling/p1?new=1

Lot of plugins needs treatment to work properly on different sample rates and handle properly switching of sample rates. Some hosts are solving this problem simply by allowing to use just same sample rate for both playback and mixdown, preferably the iOS default sample rate - but this is just workaround.

gregsmith

@MatthewAtStagelight this sounds particularly useful?

“NanoStudio always uses a sample rate of 44.1kHz for real-time, and upsamples to 48kHz if the output hardware requires it (newer devices, and some devices when using the speaker instead of the headphones).”

dendy

@gregsmith said:
@MatthewAtStagelight this sounds particularly useful?

“NanoStudio always uses a sample rate of 44.1kHz for real-time, and upsamples to 48kHz if the output hardware requires it (newer devices, and some devices when using the speaker instead of the headphones).”

I think whole Matt's post can be usefull for clearing things, in nutshell description of whole group of sample rate and buffers size handling related issues.
https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/community/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/5100/#Comment_5100

Maybe you should rename this thread to something more general, something like "Sample rate and buffer size handling issues" or "Outoftune / crackling plugins at different sample rates" .. or something like that ?

Becasue this is not just case of 48khz .. I think this topic deserves lot bigger attention of both users and developers.

[Deleted User]

We're now internally testing a fix and are waiting for Apple to approve it for beta testing. Once they do, we'll be looking for a few volunteers to pre-test the build before we launch a full beta. Anyone interested in helping during the pre-test should email me at [email protected].

gregsmith

@MatthewAtStagelight said:
We're now internally testing a fix and are waiting for Apple to approve it for beta testing. Once they do, we'll be looking for a few volunteers to pre-test the build before we launch a full beta. Anyone interested in helping during the pre-test should email me at [email protected].

Will do!

@dendy I would rename it but I can't figure out how

Matt_Borstel

I've recently made a blog post which includes AU sample rate/buffer size issues as this has come up a lot. You can read about it here:

https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/community/index.php?p=/discussion/479/some-notes-for-au-developers

gregsmith

I’m now having this problem in AUM where the rate is stuck at 48K and model d and bassalicious 2 are out of tune. I’m sure I haven’t had this issue for ages. What’s the deal?

Samu

@gregsmith said:
I’m now having this problem in AUM where the rate is stuck at 48K and model d and bassalicious 2 are out of tune. I’m sure I haven’t had this issue for ages. What’s the deal?

Don't know if you've checked but at least Model D has a preferred sample rate setting in the System Settings -> Model D?

Apple royally f'ked up when they locked the hardware sample rate on the newer devices...
...I mean if the sample rate is locked to 48K then why does the built-in camera app still record video with 44.1k audio?!

Just out of curiosity what model of iPad/iPhone and iOS/iPadOS version are you using?

gregsmith

@Samu said:

@gregsmith said:
I’m now having this problem in AUM where the rate is stuck at 48K and model d and bassalicious 2 are out of tune. I’m sure I haven’t had this issue for ages. What’s the deal?

Don't know if you've checked but at least Model D has a preferred sample rate setting in the System Settings -> Model D?

Apple royally f'ked up when they locked the hardware sample rate on the newer devices...
...I mean if the sample rate is locked to 48K then why does the built-in camera app still record video with 44.1k audio?!

Just out of curiosity what model of iPad/iPhone and iOS/iPadOS version are you using?

Thanks Samu!

I just did a test and loaded up model d, Bassalicious and some other synths I was using, with an atom instance to play the same note on all of them, and they all were in tune, so must be something to do with the previous session.

So seems to be a false alarm.

Incidentally I’m on an iPhone 11 Pro

Edit: turns out I had detuned both the oscillators in ox-bd by the exact same amount. God knows how I did it but all sorted now. Phew.

noob

start the app in IAA standalone, set rate to 48 close. should work now in aum at 48