PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

Stagelight NS2 comparison

2

Comments

  • I ha e both and yeah that Stagelight GUI is indeed “garish” as one commenter put it. I’m digging it but no manual as of yet and not much video support . . I have the Stagelight “Store Pass “ as well which is a great value and Matt has answered any questions I’ve had within a day. Also the general sounds lack the “meat” of NS2 IMO. I predict they’ll re-do both the GUI and the sound engine inn due time, hopefully by SL 5.

  • @JonLewis said:
    I’m still DYING for NS2 but I feel fairly confident it will never get that multi-row style keyboard I love so much in stagelight (and in Volt and TF8). Does NS2 have the double row option at least? I suppose the new kai aras keyboard AU could render that a moot point (except it too is iPad only).

    No idea about the iPhone version, but on iPad it has this:

  • edited December 2018

    NS2 is an unusual sort of work-in-progress, which makes it hard to compare fairly: the dev prioritized releasing an ultra optimized, bug free core platform to be expanded upon.

    That means that functionality that many of us want isn’t there yet. For me:

    • iPhone support (eta: March 2019)
    • Audio tracks (eta: June 2019)
    • better support for auv3 automation. (Eta: unclear, could be soon)

    If you know for a fact that lacking any of these features short term will make you extremely frustrated with NS2, do yourself a favor and wait for their release before you jump in.

    The biggest deciding factor for me (YMMV)
    - I want an iOS sequencer/production environment with a workflow that’s truly optimized for touch (down to all of the important details), and doesn’t feel like a more clumsy, less capable PC/Mac workstation equivalent. (iPhone support down the road is a must, but I can wait a few months.)

    NS2 is most impressive to me on this score: even though I’m still not used to it, the UI is layed out in a way that keeps me within two to three touches (I think?) of any menu I need access to, where all the touches involved are positioned in a way that helps rely on muscle memory. There also has been virtually no learning curve in finding important menus so far. (AFAIK, after a much steeper learning curve, BM3 is another rare example that does a truly impressive job with the touch workflow.)

    My impression of stagelight after using it on and off since it was released is that its UI is nowhere near that level of touch workflow. It may just be me, and it’s possible I haven’t tried hard enough. But based on my current information and experience, I can’t see myself getting to a point with it where for the most part I wouldn’t rather be using my macbook and bitwig, (or, if on iOS, stick to single apps and/or AB/aum/etc + Xequence - or take the time to master BM3 (grooveboxes arent intuitive for me.)) Don’t get me wrong, it strikes me as very capable, and if features like all platform support are a high priority, it’s a very appealing option imo.

  • @ohwell said:
    My impression of stagelight after using it on and off since it was released is that its UI is nowhere near that level of touch workflow.

    This seems fair. I like the SL gui (even the colors), but there are things that seem like they should only take a touch or two that take 3 or 4. And there are basic things like deleting a track and changing an instrument that feel counterintuitive.

  • @ohwell : Did you get the unlock on Stagelight? Or the Storepass? It’s got a orettty huge library that makes it a handy all in one .

  • @ecamburn said:

    @ohwell said:
    My impression of stagelight after using it on and off since it was released is that its UI is nowhere near that level of touch workflow.

    This seems fair. I like the SL gui (even the colors), but there are things that seem like they should only take a touch or two that take 3 or 4. And there are basic things like deleting a track and changing an instrument that feel counterintuitive.

    Anyone know SL's history? Maybe the things described here have to do with that history, because what I unerstand SL is not a new program

  • Stagelight’s been around for years on PC and Android

  • edited December 2018

    @Telstar5 said:
    @ohwell : Did you get the unlock on Stagelight? Or the Storepass? It’s got a orettty huge library that makes it a handy all in one .

    I got the unlock. Same with NS2 though, I don't plan on buying preset banks. (I should add, I didn't get into the sound engines above because as of now I could live with auv3 synths + audio tracks (yes, I need those eventually) + my own samples only. But ask me again a few months from now and I'm guessing you'll be hearing me rave about obsidian.) I can totally see the appeal of a huge library for some people. Like I said, there's a lot to like in Stagelight.

  • @ohwell : Yeah, I think I’ll explore both. Ha e you tried Cubasis?

  • edited December 2018

    @Telstar5 I haven’t. I also haven’t tried Auria Pro. Both Cubasis and Auria Pro seem excellent in many ways. Main reason I’ve stayed away besides the price being too high to just take a dip for fun: no plans for an iPhone version that I know of. (Whereas NS2 has been planed to be universal from the ground up, and with NS1 I’m told they have a track record of excellent iPhone workflow.)

  • edited December 2018

    @Telstar5 said:
    Stagelight’s been around for years on PC and Android

    Android support is another thing they deserve huge props for. Stagelight is definitely doing tons of thing extremely well. Given the responsive devs, I also wouldn’t be surprised if a future version turned out to be a better fit for me than the current one.

  • @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Very different apps. I will give you a quick what I like / not keen on opinion on each from my use perspective.

    StageLight:

    Like:
    1. Can try it before you buy.
    2. Can record midi from the loop view to a linear timeline.
    3. The drum setup makes it feel like you are programming a drum machine.
    4. Fx for each drum sound.
    5. Multi platform.
    6. Cheap as chips.

    Not keen on:
    1. Shop credit system.
    2. Garish colour scheme.
    3. Layout can feel awkward on the smaller iPads.
    4. Not sure I like much of the sound devices - too gadget feeling for myself.
    5. The mixer layout feels wrong to me, but that could just be the terrible colour scheme.
    6. No AU midi options.

    NS2

    Like:
    1. Obsidian is a great built in sampler / synth.
    2. Groups make routings easy or as complex as you want.
    3. Track lanes are great for doing extra takes.
    4. Midi editing is so fast once you know the tools
    5. Ease of use is high with NS2
    6. Super stable

    Not so keen:
    1. No mini timeline in keys view.
    2. No audio tracks as yet (eta coming next year).
    3. Poor AU midi options.
    4. AU implementation needs some tweaking.
    5. No AU fx automation.
    6. No AudioBus.

    I have both these products but I still learned something. This is so dope and one of the reasons I love this forum. Thank you!

  • I'm just say, I'm enjoying everything about stagelight right now ! Recording clips in one environment has been my dream for a while! And while mod step has been great to me, and still will find use, I'm getting extra enjoyment from stagelight right now, just wish it would support iaa, ab, run in the background....and that I could figure out how to use rozeta inside it... But until then it's helping me be very productive in writing songs!

  • @reasOne said:
    I'm just say, I'm enjoying everything about stagelight right now ! Recording clips in one environment has been my dream for a while! And while mod step has been great to me, and still will find use, I'm getting extra enjoyment from stagelight right now, just wish it would support iaa, ab, run in the background....and that I could figure out how to use rozeta inside it... But until then it's helping me be very productive in writing songs!

    No support for AU midi yet, so Rozeta is a no-go for now.

  • I was waiting and waiting for NS2 to be released. After I heard it's price (too expensive + no iPhone support yet) I start playing with Stagelight which was free to try. Till today this app keeps suprising me with it's depth and possibilties. Also thanks to this forum members help. I can easily say Stagelight is THE revelation of this year for me. Especially because of it's workflow. That said NS2 looks good and promising with it's planned updates and will be following how it's developing.

  • edited December 2018

    As being said, there is not a single perfect all in one app solution. Depending on musician and its needs, multiple workflows to help acheiving everything will almost always being needed.

    In my case, on my iPhone 7 Plus, I really need this to make my music:

    DAW, I use a lot of audio with more or less complex arrangements
    AU support, minimum instruments and effects
    IAA and Audiobus support
    Link or at least midi clock
    Audio editor and piano roll
    Loops/arrangement views (Ableton like)
    MPE support
    Automations
    Multi-take recordings for comping
    Fast arrangement workflow with good touch gestures
    Global touch friendly GUI
    24 bit recordings and exports
    Reliable rendering especially with AU

    Today, the closest one for me on iPhone is still GarageBand. Works best for audio (edition, very nice comping!!!), AU/IAA/AB so I can use apeMatrix LFO and AU midi hosting with even KRFT control surface to add movement/automations to my sound material using midi clock and Midi Link Sync, nice MPE support, fast enough when you master its shortcuts (fast to work in arrangement view, etc), loops view with record to timeline, reliable rendering, nice features here and there, etc. My number one workflow, using iOS modular environment which I love too using other apps I like with GB, including ApeM, AB, AUM, Gadget, etc. All of this despite many things missing in GarageBand.

    My live setup is still AB/AUM/Loopy, can’t beat this trio!!! Audiobus coming midi control feature make it even more powerful!!!!!

    About StageLight, too much things for me are missing today. Let’s see in future. But there is also the fact it’s really not that touch friendly, and workflow is really not that fast when you do an arrangement (scrolling via buttons, copy/paste...) it’s not that fun on iPhone, more like a desktop DAW. The potential is huge, when rendering will be ok, with better automation, and IAA/AB etc, that could eventually change for me.

    And concerning NS2, when it will be available on iPhone and will have audio tracks I will buy it. Sounds huge and seems to have that clever and intuitive touch friendly approach which is so important for an iOS DAW!!!

  • I rebooted my iPad and I opened two sessions that I created last night in stagelight, the audio units I used (ppg infinite, Layr) are not loading in every instance, out of three instances of infinite, only one would appear and none of the audio worked from the built in drum app... Not sure what's going on but this isn't good, I was really digging that track I was making and now it's gone ? Maybe a glitch?' anyone else have these issues?

  • I feel like I’m being really stupid here but I can’t get Stagelight to work, can anyone help? I just got and opened the app and I get a screen telling me to sign in (rolls eyes)... but it’s completely unresponsive. I can click the privacy policy and menu and stuff, but I have no way to sign in or actually get into the app. Pressing the sign in options where you’re meant to put your email does nothing

  • edited December 2018

    @wingwizard said:
    I feel like I’m being really stupid here but I can’t get Stagelight to work, can anyone help? I just got and opened the app and I get a screen telling me to sign in (rolls eyes)... but it’s completely unresponsive. I can click the privacy policy and menu and stuff, but I have no way to sign in or actually get into the app. Pressing the sign in options where you’re meant to put your email does nothing

    It looks like the Stagelight store is offline, which probably means you can''t start up the app if you are a first time user. Hope this issue is resolved fast. btw The StageLight app works for me, but also the StageLight Store is unavailable.
    @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight

  • @greengrocer said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I feel like I’m being really stupid here but I can’t get Stagelight to work, can anyone help? I just got and opened the app and I get a screen telling me to sign in (rolls eyes)... but it’s completely unresponsive. I can click the privacy policy and menu and stuff, but I have no way to sign in or actually get into the app. Pressing the sign in options where you’re meant to put your email does nothing

    It looks like the Stagelight store is offline, which probably means you can''t start up the app if you are a first time user. Hope this issue is resolved fast. btw The StageLight app works for me, but also the StageLight Store is unavailable.
    @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight

    Thank you. Hope it’s up again soon, really want to try the mpe sampler

  • @greengrocer said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I feel like I’m being really stupid here but I can’t get Stagelight to work, can anyone help? I just got and opened the app and I get a screen telling me to sign in (rolls eyes)... but it’s completely unresponsive. I can click the privacy policy and menu and stuff, but I have no way to sign in or actually get into the app. Pressing the sign in options where you’re meant to put your email does nothing

    It looks like the Stagelight store is offline, which probably means you can''t start up the app if you are a first time user. Hope this issue is resolved fast. btw The StageLight app works for me, but also the StageLight Store is unavailable.
    @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight

    Ahhh, reminds me why I never wanted to get into an App that requires a login.
    But I did the the StageLight iOS unlock...

    But it's a bad model.

  • The store is down on my iPhone but not on my iPad.

  • @Janosax said:
    As being said, there is not a single perfect all in one app solution. Depending on musician and its needs, multiple workflows to help acheiving everything will almost always being needed.

    In my case, on my iPhone 7 Plus, I really need this to make my music:

    DAW, I use a lot of audio with more or less complex arrangements
    AU support, minimum instruments and effects
    IAA and Audiobus support
    Link or at least midi clock
    Audio editor and piano roll
    Loops/arrangement views (Ableton like)
    MPE support
    Automations
    Multi-take recordings for comping
    Fast arrangement workflow with good touch gestures
    Global touch friendly GUI
    24 bit recordings and exports
    Reliable rendering especially with AU

    Today, the closest one for me on iPhone is still GarageBand. Works best for audio (edition, very nice comping!!!), AU/IAA/AB so I can use apeMatrix LFO and AU midi hosting with even KRFT control surface to add movement/automations to my sound material using midi clock and Midi Link Sync, nice MPE support, fast enough when you master its shortcuts (fast to work in arrangement view, etc), loops view with record to timeline, reliable rendering, nice features here and there, etc. My number one workflow, using iOS modular environment which I love too using other apps I like with GB, including ApeM, AB, AUM, Gadget, etc. All of this despite many things missing in GarageBand.

    My live setup is still AB/AUM/Loopy, can’t beat this trio!!! Audiobus coming midi control feature make it even more powerful!!!!!

    About StageLight, too much things for me are missing today. Let’s see in future. But there is also the fact it’s really not that touch friendly, and workflow is really not that fast when you do an arrangement (scrolling via buttons, copy/paste...) it’s not that fun on iPhone, more like a desktop DAW. The potential is huge, when rendering will be ok, with better automation, and IAA/AB etc, that could eventually change for me.

    And concerning NS2, when it will be available on iPhone and will have audio tracks I will buy it. Sounds huge and seems to have that clever and intuitive touch friendly approach which is so important for an iOS DAW!!!

    Wise words, even though I hate to agree: as it stands GB remains king of the daw hill on iPhone. It’s almost embarassing to admit too, given how obvious it is that Apple isnt bringing it’s A game to GB (eg, it’s still stuck in pre iOS 7 skeuomorphic wood and metal land)

    What’s especially striking to me is that GB’s UI on iPhone is extremely well executed, so much so that the things that get in the way of workflow for more advanced users are arguably all there for a good reason: to present information in a way that makes the learning curve as smooth and non intimidating as possible for people who are new to DAWs. Once a user wants to dig into editing the reverb and compression parameters, they are there for them to control. But if they aren’t ready for it, none of the advanced menus and parameters are sitting in plain sight, distracting them from achieving musical results by constantly reminding them how much of the software they don’t understand. And as you mention with mpe, the advanced features go very far.

    This is one of the things that makes me so confident that there’s room for iPhone DAWs with much better workflow for users that need quick and efficient navigation of all the features: someone just needs to bring the level of execution GB’s UI has to the very different game of making an iPhone DAW that prioritizes workflow (over beginner friendliness.)

    I feel like a shout out to blip and intua is in order, but I won’t jinx it.

  • I think it’s pretty amazing that SL has gotten as much support as it has in the iOS community. To me, the iOS music environment is all about interconnectivity. SL is pretty limited in this respect. No IAA, no AB, no Link. Imagine what it would be like with these things. Hope these are all high on the devs priority list.

  • @ecamburn said:
    I think it’s pretty amazing that SL has gotten as much support as it has in the iOS community. To me, the iOS music environment is all about interconnectivity. SL is pretty limited in this respect. No IAA, no AB, no Link. Imagine what it would be like with these things. Hope these are all high on the devs priority list.

    I love SL, but omission of AU midi and also no background audio is currently what stops me from being able to create my music within SL at the moment. When they add those, or proper AU midi support, I can ”move in” to SL properly. Right now it is mainly an interesting playground but I have to go elsewhere to get the work done.

  • I think Auv3 midi support as well as IAA is coming . Or have I heard wrong?
    @MatthewAtStagelight

  • As long as we’re wishing I wish SL had Ableton export and/or midi mixdown

  • @Telstar5 said:
    I think Auv3 midi support as well as IAA is coming . Or have I heard wrong?
    @MatthewAtStagelight

    Both of those features are planned for early next year.

  • @MatthewAtStagelight is audiobus3 in the plans too?

  • @fattigman said:
    @MatthewAtStagelight is audiobus3 in the plans too?

    Yes it is!

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