A sequencer which records MPE?

Is there a sequencer on ios which can record MPE accurately at the moment? Thanks.

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Comments

  • Cubasis maybe?

  • @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

  • Damn, we only have the audio recording available on ios at the moment for MPE?

  • edited December 4

    Cubasis supports recording of MPE data in midi

  • Audio Evolution Mobile Studio is a DAW and not a sequencer but
    there were some interactions about MPE with the developer of Audio Evolution Mobile @dwrae and @Matt_Fletcher_2000 that showed his apps MIDI behavior worked for most things for MPE data input.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/28106/audio-evolution-mobile-daw-now-officially-supports-the-iphone

    Most older MIDI Apps accepted up to 16 channels being recorded on a single channel due to General MIDI data patterns where a track might get assigned to a General MIDI model.

    I'm not sure if the extra critical details have been added on not.
    Worth checking out to record MPEand cut 'n paste the data.

  • Stagelight says it can do MPE but I haven’t tried it. Does anyone know the midi resolution of Stagelight? I’d imagine it’s probably better than Cubasis as Cubasis is about as bad as it gets.

  • GarageBand.

  • @OscarSouth said:

    @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

    I still don't understand why MIDI resolution would be important.
    Sounds high enough for me, at least.

    Where could problems arise with those 48 PPQ, practically?

  • BM3 records all kinds of extra automations when I play my Linnstrument. I guess it's MPE data?

  • @tja said:

    @OscarSouth said:

    @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

    I still don't understand why MIDI resolution would be important.
    Sounds high enough for me, at least.

    Where could problems arise with those 48 PPQ, practically?

    If you want to record an unquantised performance and keep that performance intact, then the MIDI resolution in Cubasis might frustrate you, especially if you have a very well-honed sense of timing.

  • edited December 4

    I will check garageband out thanks. I guess we will have to be a little patient. I would like to be able to edit some MPE midi accurately. Maybe next gen sequencers?

    I will also look at Audio Evolution.

  • @Norbert said:
    I will check garageband out thanks. I guess we will have to be a little patient. I would like to be able to edit some MPE midi accurately. Maybe next gen sequencers?

    I will also look at Audio Evolution.

    In GarageBand you will only be able to edit the main notes, not the whole MPE data. It's OK for fixing timing errors etc but I don't know of any iOS DAW or sequencer that lets you edit all the MPE data.

  • @tja said:

    @OscarSouth said:

    @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

    I still don't understand why MIDI resolution would be important.
    Sounds high enough for me, at least.

    Where could problems arise with those 48 PPQ, practically?

    It’s fine for composing on the piano roll or using sequencer apps, but won’t capture the minutia of nuance in a performance. If it’s going to be quantised then it’s probably ok, but for a real instrumental performance that’s unacceptable.

  • edited December 4

    .

  • edited December 4

    @OscarSouth said:

    @tja said:

    @OscarSouth said:

    @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

    I still don't understand why MIDI resolution would be important.
    Sounds high enough for me, at least.

    Where could problems arise with those 48 PPQ, practically?

    It’s fine for composing on the piano roll or using sequencer apps, but won’t capture the minutia of nuance in a performance. If it’s going to be quantised then it’s probably ok, but for a real instrumental performance that’s unacceptable.

    Yeah we need a sequencer which can get data at a much higher resolution, I agree, maybe use some sort of bezier curves to write a function f(x) which translates the movements, just like the auria automation but with no edges.

  • Thanks @richardyot and @OscarSouth
    I begin to understand.

    Some calculations:

    At 120 BPM, would be 120 bars in 60 seconds, right?
    This is 2 bars in 1 second and so, 8 quarter notes in 1 second.
    This is the same as 0,125 seconds per quarter note.
    1/48 of this is about 0,00261
    So 2,6 milliseconds.

    Having 96 PPQ would reduce that to about 1,3 milliseconds.

    Can that really be heared?
    I mean realy as in ABX blind test?

    But OK, there are pieces with about 60 BPM, which doubles those numbers.

    Still interesting to read what you think.

  • edited December 5

    @Norbert said:
    Cubasis maybe?

    .

    @OscarSouth said:
    Probably the worst one for recording MIDI performances because of resolution. No idea about MPE at all though.

    Wasn’t @Lars & Steinberg saying they’d improve this? Seems like a couple of years ago by now?

  • BPM is BEATS not bars per minute.

    @tja said:
    Thanks @richardyot and @OscarSouth
    I begin to understand.

    Some calculations:

    At 120 BPM, would be 120 bars in 60 seconds, right?
    This is 2 bars in 1 second and so, 8 quarter notes in 1 second.
    This is the same as 0,125 seconds per quarter note.
    1/48 of this is about 0,00261
    So 2,6 milliseconds.

    Having 96 PPQ would reduce that to about 1,3 milliseconds.

    Can that really be heared?
    I mean realy as in ABX blind test?

    But OK, there are pieces with about 60 BPM, which doubles those numbers.

    Still interesting to read what you think.

    @tja said:
    Thanks @richardyot and @OscarSouth
    I begin to understand.

    Some calculations:

    At 120 BPM, would be 120 bars in 60 seconds, right?
    This is 2 bars in 1 second and so, 8 quarter notes in 1 second.
    This is the same as 0,125 seconds per quarter note.
    1/48 of this is about 0,00261
    So 2,6 milliseconds.

    Having 96 PPQ would reduce that to about 1,3 milliseconds.

    Can that really be heared?
    I mean realy as in ABX blind test?

    But OK, there are pieces with about 60 BPM, which doubles those numbers.

    Still interesting to read what you think.

  • PPQN essentially means the number of 'note slots' between quarter notes. A note cannot reside in-between 'note slots', but must sit inside a slot. Higher PPQN means there are more 'note slots' to more accurately capture your live performance.

    But it's not as simple as that, since some software is sloppier than others. Plus people accustomed to using pattern-based sequencers with quantization on record may think that a higher resolution/PPQN sequencer is sloppier since they are accustomed to quantization on record or a lower resolution, like a drum machine.

    Double the tempo to double the PPQN. But play at 'half-tempo'.

  • @espiegel123

    What did I calculate wrong?

    With a 4/4 signature at 60 BPM, a beat is a quarter note with 0,25 seconds.
    And at 120 BPM, this would be 0,125 seconds as I wrote.
    Wrong?

    I'm quite tired, sorry.

  • @tja: At 60 BPM, 1 quarter note takes one second not 0.25 seconds (BPM is beats per minute; in 4/4 1 quarter note is 1beat). At 120 BPM , a quarter note duration is 0.5 seconds not 0.125.

    You calculated from bars per minute rather than beats per minute. So the calcs are off by a factor of four.

  • Proper MPE recording of each channel exactly how it was played? The answer is no. Doesn‘t exist in iOS.
    Even on desktop not all major DAWs can do this.

  • Photon should be able to do this - its an au, records all 16 channels (so incorporates mpe) at once - every midi message except sysex (atm).
    I don't have an mpe device to test with, and I can't play fast anymore, but kb-1 sends midi notes on consecutive channels.
    It will be available before xmas.

  • @midiSequencer said:
    Photon should be able to do this - its an au, records all 16 channels (so incorporates mpe) at once - every midi message except sysex (atm).
    I don't have an mpe device to test with, and I can't play fast anymore, but kb-1 sends midi notes on consecutive channels.
    It will be available before xmas.

    Noise is free on ios so you can test is out if you want.

  • @Norbert said:

    Noise is free on ios so you can test is out if you want.

    ta

  • @midiSequencer said:
    Photon should be able to do this - its an au, records all 16 channels (so incorporates mpe) at once - every midi message except sysex (atm).
    I don't have an mpe device to test with, and I can't play fast anymore, but kb-1 sends midi notes on consecutive channels.
    It will be available before xmas.

    yay!

  • edited December 5

    What is photon exactly? Can't find anything about it in google, apart from the light particle of course. Thanks.

  • @Norbert said:
    What is photon exactly? Can't find anything about it in google, apart from the light particle of course. Thanks.

    It a AUv3 that records and loops midi, it gonna be amazing for hosts like AUM.

    you can check out megathread

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/28149/real-time-sequencer-aum#latest

  • @TrevorLlewellyn said:

    @Norbert said:
    What is photon exactly? Can't find anything about it in google, apart from the light particle of course. Thanks.

    It a AUv3 that records and loops midi, it gonna be amazing for hosts like AUM.

    you can check out megathread

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/28149/real-time-sequencer-aum#latest

    Cool, thanks.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @tja: At 60 BPM, 1 quarter note takes one second not 0.25 seconds (BPM is beats per minute; in 4/4 1 quarter note is 1beat). At 120 BPM , a quarter note duration is 0.5 seconds not 0.125.

    You calculated from bars per minute rather than beats per minute. So the calcs are off by a factor of four.

    I calculated from beats per minute, but did part the bars into smaller and smaller bits.
    So, at a 1/1 signature the beat would be the whole bar and take 1 second at 60 BPM.
    And at a 2/2 signature, it took 0,5 seconds because I calculated the bar to be still 1 one second and of course also 60 BP.
    And finally at a 4/4 signature, it took 0,25 seconds, at still 60 BPM.

    But it seems that the term BPM does change the length of the bar, and his I was not aware of.
    I only understood this after setting some examples in Cubasis and tested around.

    I am not sure if this is finally correct.

    Enlarging the bar to 4 seconds at 4/4 with a quarter note beat means that in a minute now are only 15 bars, not 60 as at 1/1

    But 15 bars within 60 seconds and in summary 15 beats in that minute is finally not 60 BPM anymore.

    So, I am not sure what I misunderstood - assuming that you are right!

    With what you wrote, and which Cubasis confirmed, such a track finally does NOT have 60 BPM!
    This is just 15 bars and therefor 15 BPM, with 1 beat in 1/4 of each bar and the beats staying at 1 second each.

    Orrr, the "BMP" is not really "Beats Per Minute" but in effect "Bars Per Minute" multiplied by the order of the used signature.

    15 beats at 1 second each in a 4/4 signature which makes each bar 4 seconds would be 15 * 4 = 60 and just WRITTEN as "60 BPM".

    So, I am still confused ;-)

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