WHO LET YOUR EARS OUT? Do We Still Listen?

edited July 10 in Off-topic

Once again I had to retitle this in a more controversial way. I think this is worth hearing what people have to say from social, psychological, scientific and evolutionary points of view. I offer no comment except for this:

When my mom was a teenager, over one hundred years ago, every household that could afford it had a piano. And most members of the family played an instrument. My dad, mandolin, his brother, clarinet, and my mom, piano. I can imagine the cacophonies arising into the summer evenings. There was the Edison cylinder phonograph and that was about it. Times have changed. Have we changed as music appreciators as well?

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Comments

  • What a beautiful time it was to have a piano as the primary means of music expression (after the voice of course). Times have definitely changed and our music appreciation has changed as well, but not necessarily for worse. Our appreciation adjusts to the amount of access we have. I think the love and appreciation of music is expanding as it always will, despite a lack of more technical engagement. I think the reason it seems so much further along and confounding to traditionalist is that key based instruments existed for centuries before the current technology boom. Same as printed paper. Watching someone engage with a piano or a book a century ahead wouldn’t look completely foreign to a time traveler. A computer, however, would look like sorcery. Despite the rapid changes and subsequent growing pains, I still believe that music appeciation and engagement is pretty strong. Some would say it’s less, I would just say it’s different.

  • If Roland Lamb has his way @DCJ, the qwerty keyboard will soon be as obsolete as the Edison phono My own personal opinion, I think love of music and global access have expanded
    enormously with technology and globalization.

    If you want to hear just how far we have come....

    https://publicdomainreview.org/collections/i-am-the-edison-phonograph-1906/

  • I think we've changed as appreciators. The bad news? These days, a lot of "teenage appreciators" idolise these stars while the music (if you can call it that) itself comes second. If you heard of Post Malone, Lil Pump, and other "mumble rappers" that sound like they're rapping about the same shit with a mouth full of shit, you'll know what I mean.

    (Although side note, Gazzy Garcia himself seems like a good person.)

    When your mum was a teenager, I'm betting her idols were probably the same idols I had as a kid - Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Handel, Pachelbel, Clementi, Hayden, etc etc etc. I started learning piano at the age of 9 and started making my own music on it as I never cared for what was being released in the top 40 at the time. That's how I came to love music in a pre-internet era. It also helped that 90s society for some reason viewed Classical music as culturally enriching. It was the perfect time to grow up, lol.

    The good news is services like Youtube and Spotify have not only allowed us to listen to these Classical composers and modern "pop stars" but also to music from a plethora of non-Westernised traditions as well, constantly expanding our sonic palettes and our minds as to what music was, is, and can be.

  • @jwmmakerofmusic , I respectfully disagree. My folks weren't very sophisticated and grew up in the south. Probably Stephen Foster is more like it! And maybe Melancholy Baby (pub 1915), or Glow Little Gloworm or Smile by Charlie Chaplin some years later. I cannot decry music teens listen to because of the hellstorm rock and roll, long hair and commie thinking caused when I was a teenager myself. I cannot but think any prejudices I have probably reflect the same concerns, upheaval and fears my parents had. Did we go to hell? Doesn't seem so. Music is all pervasive now. That must count for something in the evolutionary scheme of things.

    Yes, like you I had some appreciation of the greats from piano lessons by Mr. Feldman, but my folks didn't listen and it wasn't taught in school. We were fortunate, I think, to have been able to listen to records and go to an occasional concert. But wasn't it so limited when, as you so rightfully say, today you can go to YouTube and hear almost anyone you can think of and read the sheet music at the same time!

  • edited July 10

    @jwmmakerofmusic

    Bit harsh to label Post Malone a mumble rapper ;) That kid’s pretty talented when he chooses to be -

    Agreed though...Planet Internet = The degree of success an artist has is often more about personality than music these days.

  • edited July 10

    @Dawdles said:
    @jwmmakerofmusic

    Bit harsh to label Post Malone a mumble rapper ;) That kid’s pretty talented when he chooses to be -

    Agreed though...Planet Internet = The degree of success an artist has is often more about personality than music these days.

    He's too concerned with hitting the sweet spots with his voice than delivering the song. The 'I gave her my heart but she wanted my soul' was cringeworthy...if you're not gonna deliver it with the aloofness of a matter-of-fact Dylan, then make me believe it. That's not a fault individual to him; too many people cover songs they don't display any real emotional connection to, and my question is, if you don't have that connection, why cover someone's song?

    That said, he DOES have a good voice.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @jwmmakerofmusic , I respectfully disagree. My folks weren't very sophisticated and grew up in the south. Probably Stephen Foster is more like it! And maybe Melancholy Baby (pub 1915), or Glow Little Gloworm or Smile by Charlie Chaplin some years later. I cannot decry music teens listen to because of the hellstorm rock and roll, long hair and commie thinking caused when I was a teenager myself. I cannot but think any prejudices I have probably reflect the same concerns, upheaval and fears my parents had. Did we go to hell? Doesn't seem so. Music is all pervasive now. That must count for something in the evolutionary scheme of things.

    Yes, like you I had some appreciation of the greats from piano lessons by Mr. Feldman, but my folks didn't listen and it wasn't taught in school. We were fortunate, I think, to have been able to listen to records and go to an occasional concert. But wasn't it so limited when, as you so rightfully say, today you can go to YouTube and hear almost anyone you can think of and read the sheet music at the same time!

    Much to digest here.

    Sociologically, Psychologically, as well as spiritually.

  • I really wish you wouldn’t re-title threads for more comments. There are a million reasons people might not engage. It’s not always because the title isn’t controversial enough. Give us some credit! And have a little patience. ;)

  • edited July 10

    @oat_phipps said:

    @Dawdles said:
    @jwmmakerofmusic

    Bit harsh to label Post Malone a mumble rapper ;) That kid’s pretty talented when he chooses to be -

    Agreed though...Planet Internet = The degree of success an artist has is often more about personality than music these days.

    He's too concerned with hitting the sweet spots with his voice than delivering the song. The 'I gave her my heart but she wanted my soul' was cringeworthy...if you're not gonna deliver it with the aloofness of a matter-of-fact Dylan, then make me believe it. That's not a fault individual to him; too many people cover songs they don't display any real emotional connection to, and my question is, if you don't have that connection, why cover someone's song?

    That said, he DOES have a good voice.

    Bit over critical I think... He was young here and it’s just a video he shot and uploaded before anyone had ever heard of him.... I personally thought he delivered it fine, seemed genuine to me. I’ve seen/heard much, much worse...

    I only heard about the guy a few weeks ago and I’ve only seen this video and another one where he was rapping on a tank IIRC!?! Pretty heavy change of direction!

  • @Dawdles said:

    @oat_phipps said:

    @Dawdles said:
    @jwmmakerofmusic

    Bit harsh to label Post Malone a mumble rapper ;) That kid’s pretty talented when he chooses to be -

    Agreed though...Planet Internet = The degree of success an artist has is often more about personality than music these days.

    He's too concerned with hitting the sweet spots with his voice than delivering the song. The 'I gave her my heart but she wanted my soul' was cringeworthy...if you're not gonna deliver it with the aloofness of a matter-of-fact Dylan, then make me believe it. That's not a fault individual to him; too many people cover songs they don't display any real emotional connection to, and my question is, if you don't have that connection, why cover someone's song?

    That said, he DOES have a good voice.

    Bit over critical I think... He was young here and it’s just a video he shot and uploaded before anyone had ever heard of him.... I personally thought he delivered it fine, seemed genuine to me. I’ve seen/heard much, much worse...

    I only heard about the guy a few weeks ago and I’ve only seen this video and another one where he was rapping on a tank or something similar!?! Pretty heavy change of direction!

    I'm over-critical by nature and just in one of those moods today. So forgive me. Probably went in a little too hard for a 3 minute video. BUT, I stand by my comments B)

  • Hey @DCJ. The truth is soon as I retitled more people took interest and discussion began. No offense. Does it really make a difference? Besides, I am 70. Not much time.

    The Millenial Whoop:

  • This entire thread has been plagiarised from a nearly identical one that was here in recent times. I’d be suspicious about this one if I were you – it’s probably a cheap Chinese copy and will fall apart in a few days.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Hey @DCJ. The truth is soon as I retitled more people took interest and discussion began. No offense. Does it really make a difference? Besides, I am 70. Not much time.

    The Millenial Whoop:

    The complete absence of this on Carly Rae Jepsen's Emotion album was so refreshing. It was/is just a stone-cold classic.

  • @u0421793 said:
    This entire thread has been plagiarised from a nearly identical one that was here in recent times. I’d be suspicious about this one if I were you – it’s probably a cheap Chinese copy and will fall apart in a few days.

    The topic may be similar, but it is posing an unanswerable question.
    Different people have replied on this thread, offering different personal opinions.
    And you made a comment bashing China.
    And now I mentioned that fact.

    I don’t know, it seems pretty unique to me. :p

  • Definitely not offended! I think they would come without a title change. I’ve seen threads go a day before a comment and end up being pages long. But by all means, do what you feel good sir.

  • As for my music appreciation, I was born in 85 and it's basically separated into 2 phases: pre-Napster and post-Napster.

    Every allowance starting in 5th grade went to a new CD each week. I couldn't do any research then outside of watching MTV (I didn't get the internet til 8th grade) or, yes, VH1. So, if there wasn't a hit song that was doing it for me that week, I'd go to the local head shop or Best Buy, browse for an incredibly long time, and pick out something based on the band name/song titles/album cover art. If it sucked, it was a loooong week of trying to find some good in it to refine my tastes. I think there was a lot of value in those shitty weeks. It definitely taught me to see through production and know when to realize a good song is a good song despite its trimmings.

    That ended up longer than intended, and I'm more interested in going to play music now, so I'll just say Napster and Audiogalaxy (RIP) blew open the doors for me music-discovery-wise. I'll never repent for all the music I stole, and I'm so grateful for it (as well as Spotify today). At the same time in high school, I'd still take my part-time job money, cut lunch and yearbook, and go to Tower Records, browse for an incredibly long time, and pick out something based on the band name/song titles/album cover art/stuff I'd read on the newfangled cable internet.

  • I heard a song on the radio the other day.
    I liked it.
    I asked my kid who it was.
    She replied, “Post Malone.”
    I thought, “So this is the guy @jwmmakerofmusic is always raggin’ on.? Why all the hate?”
    Seems you might hate the guy so much, you don’t hear the music.
    He stood out from the rest of the muck on the radio, and in a good way.
    At least to my ears.

  • @CracklePot said:
    I heard a song on the radio the other day.
    I liked it.
    I asked my kid who it was.
    She replied, “Post Malone.”
    I thought, “So this is the guy @jwmmakerofmusic is always raggin’ on.? Why all the hate?”
    Seems you might hate the guy so much, you don’t hear the music.
    He stood out from the rest of the muck on the radio, and in a good way.
    At least to my ears.

    So after reading this, I decided to see if Post released anything new since you claimed he's good. Damn, he is. :flushed: My first impression of him was that stupid "Rockstar" song. So yeah I wrote him off. Except for that track, I think the rest of his first album sounds pretty legit after skimming it. So yeah, I will download it on Spotify and give it a good listen, maybe skip the Rockstar song. :lol:

  • I listened to my first “Post Malone” song the other week
    A lot of people I know have mentioned him or have gone to his concert. So I said let me check this guy out.
    Went to YouTube and played his first hit song I think the Iverson one
    Had to turn that off REAL QUICK LOL
    im a diehard hiphop head in my 30s but this auto tune, mumble stuff I can’t get down with
    Why are all these rapper guys trying to sing?

    Even guys like Drake, baffles me how popular they are

  • I grew up in a family where music education was dictated by reading sheet music, going to lessons, and participating in band class. I got seriously good at regurgitating music from a page... understanding and appreciating? I personally think no. I have had to work my entire adult life to learn how actually create music which in and of itself is really what helps you to be more appreciative of others work. I actually believe that if band class was a straight up drum circle for an hour people would come out of high school being a much better and more appreciative musician than a classical approach. @LinearLineman never said how his family played music but I only have the level of music knowledge I have because of the internet and modern technology. Its not even a question for me that now is better than then.

  • Since this has become a Post Malone thread, I will say that I think the dude is extremely talented and has too many good songs to ignore and is also the biggest fraud on the charts. :)

  • @ruggedsmooth said:
    I listened to my first “Post Malone” song the other week
    A lot of people I know have mentioned him or have gone to his concert. So I said let me check this guy out.
    Went to YouTube and played his first hit song I think the Iverson one
    Had to turn that off REAL QUICK LOL
    im a diehard hiphop head in my 30s but this auto tune, mumble stuff I can’t get down with
    Why are all these rapper guys trying to sing?

    Even guys like Drake, baffles me how popular they are

    I would think their preference for female fans, rather than male fans, is the reason they are singing.

  • Wait is Post Malone that same dude from the video I overcriticized above? I'm thinking so due to the tendency to overuse his raging forest fire vibrato. I just went to Spotify and went through the latest release and that's some real awful music.

    It panders well, but that's more of a skill of imitation rather than creation.

    I could go on, but I have no problem admitting I'm old and times have passed me by. They'd pretty much passed me by when I was born, it seems.

  • I wouldn’t listen to Post Malone by choice necessarily, but in the context of what my kids expose me to, he is tolerable. At least that one song I heard was. Just the fact that I wasn’t in a state of slight agitation while hearing that song was a huge relief, if only momentarily.

  • Why does the music kids like always rattle their parents cages?
    I don't think it has ever been different, at least in the US, for generations. My mom was really anti weed. I got her to smoke at age eighty. She loved it. Improved her appetite, sense of humor and world outlook. Plus she was a hit with all my friends!
    And she forgot her angst about her son, the erstwhile hippie.

    @shiftsynth1 I don't think my family's music was very good, but they had a good time doing it. Thanks for the post!

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Why does the music kids like always rattle their parents cages?

    I like Clean Bandit, Sia, KSHMR and whoever he got on his Dharma Worldwide label, Lady Gaga, and people who craft great songs, great modern music.

    Very interesting musical upbringing by the way. :)

    @CracklePot So I gave Post's album a listen in rush hour. The good - his vocal delivery IS solid, and the beats in the tracks are really nice and tight. The bad - every song sounds the same with the same kind of lyrics about the same subjects, lol.

    Just like @ruggedsmooth , I grew up with old skool hiphop during the days where artists were a lot more raw and real with the lyrics they spit. Digital Underground, NWA, Snoop (long before he went from legit to a punk bitch), Old Dirty Bastard, Pras, Brand Nubian, you get the picture. Even Fresh Prince, while giving off a bit more of a clean-cut non-political vibe, was legit.

    You can tell that Post and Lil Pump are working with every "smokin (insert drug) and gettin money and drunk bitches" cliche and rap trope rather than researching what Hiphop was and is. They're posers of the worst kind. Sorry, but while Post is talented in vocal delivery, he's saying the same shit every other mumble rapper is saying, except at least Post enunciates. :smirk:

  • @ruggedsmooth said:
    I listened to my first “Post Malone” song the other week
    A lot of people I know have mentioned him or have gone to his concert. So I said let me check this guy out.
    Went to YouTube and played his first hit song I think the Iverson one
    Had to turn that off REAL QUICK LOL
    im a diehard hiphop head in my 30s but this auto tune, mumble stuff I can’t get down with
    Why are all these rapper guys trying to sing?

    Even guys like Drake, baffles me how popular they are

    I listened to my first one today: the Dylan song linked above. Eh, he's okay but we all played that song when I was a kid. There'd be two or three kids on any dorm floor who could sing it just as well. The second one I found on YT was slathered in autotune so I turned it off after about ten seconds.

  • @DCJ said:
    I really wish you wouldn’t re-title threads for more comments. There are a million reasons people might not engage. It’s not always because the title isn’t controversial enough. Give us some credit! And have a little patience. ;)

    Maybe forum posting is a second language for the > @shiftsynth1 said:

    I grew up in a family where music education was dictated by reading sheet music, going to lessons, and participating in band class. I got seriously good at regurgitating music from a page... understanding and appreciating? I personally think no. I have had to work my entire adult life to learn how actually create music which in and of itself is really what helps you to be more appreciative of others work. I actually believe that if band class was a straight up drum circle for an hour people would come out of high school being a much better and more appreciative musician than a classical approach. @LinearLineman never said how his family played music but I only have the level of music knowledge I have because of the internet and modern technology. Its not even a question for me that now is better than then.

    Right.

    I remember as a child sitting multiple nights per week while my father's band practiced.

    My mother actually sang much as well.

    I used to love sitting with the lights guy pressing buttons.

    Best time of my life as a child before things got hard.

    That being said, I see both of your perspectives for sure.

  • Re post malone, I don’t know much about his story but his success seems pretty symbolic of the internet age and I say good luck to him. His music isn’t aimed at me and I can easily ignore it. Kids dig it so there must be some kind of connect with their lives. I blame governments and the existence of internet for that - society + social media are a vicious circle on a downward spiral.... I don’t blame kids like Post Malone who are just seeing their chance and taking it...who wouldn’t?

    Re the OP, all of my family are/were musicians - grandparents, uncles and aunts, my dad. Music was always around the house while I was growing up. Records, tv, radio, tapes, my dad rehearsing/recording. Obviously I had nowhere near as much to choose from as we do today with Spotify and YouTube but I was never bored of what I did have access to. My ears/brain knew Lps inside out. It seems like that happens just as often now, only a few every year, in spite of me being exposed to much more. As a musician I feel like most things I hear are just instinctively dismissed and I don’t even really notice it drift past. Like life in general has become a radio. And a lot of other stuff is good but I only listen to it once. And some stuff I don’t like at all but there are elements I take onboard as a part of the endless self-education of being a musician/producer. There are a lot of different ways to ‘listen’ to music I guess...

  • edited July 11

    We have greater access to music and more access to tools to make music than ever before and for that I am very grateful. I do occasionally listen to chart music, just to make sure I am not missing anything interesting (I am not), and I am happy listening to the likes of Magenta, Mostly Autumn, Karnataka, Neal Morse, Tiger Moth Tales, etc. Each to their own.

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