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Midi Sysex Control Apps by Coffeeshopped and Midi Quest (prices/tech)

The (relatively) high prices of midi sysex control apps seem to cause regular frowning.
Here are some of my thoughts regarding the subject, based on experience with Casio and Kawai gear, but it's probably not much different with other units from the same range of time.

Coffeeshopped 'all access' is about $100, MidiQuest's $280 (they have more, tough)
Supposedly popular MidiQuest modules are each about $50, more 'exotic' ones about $100.
I don't know any other supplier of such software, but tried several Lemur templates which ALL sucked.

Considering myself a fairly experienced developer (with a highly sophisticated environment to process data streams), I still never dared to dive into writing my own sysex editor for the Kawai XD5.
It takes a lot of time to understand the handling of those midi streams, conditions are very hardware dependent, in particular if you want realtime control of multiple parameters which can easily flood the tiny buffers of such devices.

There will only be a very small customer group the developer can adress - most users prefer plugin software or samples today.
For that reason I regard those prices as justified - and I'm absolutely sure noone will ever release a controller for the Kawai XD5 (which is a kind of secret weapon drumsynth).
Except MidiQuest (who have done it including realtime sound modulations) and Coffeeshopped (where it's on schedule as a possible release, rank 15 or so).

Those 32€ for CZ-Touch not only saved me from replacing 20 switches on the circuit board, but also made the synth controllable in real-time with continous parameter change, something the hardware cannot do.
I'm quite happy with the implementation of touch response and handling.

The idea of @theinvisibleman to control the controller app with another set of CCs sent by a physical unit is tempting, but it would increase midi traffic significantly.
In a standard cabling the synth will at least have to inspect the packets and pass them on.
I once used a Kawai (sysex)hardware faderbox for the K4/XD5 and it was easy to hang the synth with just a couple of too ambitious movements (overflowing the buffer).
While you CAN realtime control both devices, that probably never was intended by Kawai.
As a developer you have to deal with such (and similiar) quirks, which is not even obvious from specs.

Comments

  • edited June 2018

    @Telefunky said:
    The (relatively) high prices of midi sysex control apps seem to cause regular frowning.
    Here are some of my thoughts regarding the subject, based on experience with Casio and Kawai gear, but it's probably not much different with other units from the same range of time.

    Coffeeshopped 'all access' is about $100, MidiQuest's $280 (they have more, tough)
    Supposedly popular MidiQuest modules are each about $50, more 'exotic' ones about $100.
    I don't know any other supplier of such software, but tried several Lemur templates which ALL sucked.

    Considering myself a fairly experienced developer (with a highly sophisticated environment to process data streams), I still never dared to dive into writing my own sysex editor for the Kawai XD5.
    It takes a lot of time to understand the handling of those midi streams, conditions are very hardware dependent, in particular if you want realtime control of multiple parameters which can easily flood the tiny buffers of such devices.

    There will only be a very small customer group the developer can adress - most users prefer plugin software or samples today.
    For that reason I regard those prices as justified - and I'm absolutely sure noone will ever release a controller for the Kawai XD5 (which is a kind of secret weapon drumsynth).
    Except MidiQuest (who have done it including realtime sound modulations) and Coffeeshopped (where it's on schedule as a possible release, rank 15 or so).

    Those 32€ for CZ-Touch not only saved me from replacing 20 switches on the circuit board, but also made the synth controllable in real-time with continous parameter change, something the hardware cannot do.
    I'm quite happy with the implementation of touch response and handling.

    The idea of @theinvisibleman to control the controller app with another set of CCs sent by a physical unit is tempting, but it would increase midi traffic significantly.
    In a standard cabling the synth will at least have to inspect the packets and pass them on.
    I once used a Kawai (sysex)hardware faderbox for the K4/XD5 and it was easy to hang the synth with just a couple of too ambitious movements (overflowing the buffer).
    While you CAN realtime control both devices, that probably never was intended by Kawai.
    As a developer you have to deal with such (and similiar) quirks, which is not even obvious from specs.

    I bought CZ Touch. Are you the developer of it? Maybe randomization of separated parameters and a copy/paste of parameters would be nice update for CZ touch. I will ask coffeeshopped. Does midi cc control of the app effect the midi sysex traffic out to the hardware then? I wouldn’t have thought so but I know absolutely nothing about programming.

  • edited June 2018

    No, I'm not - instead I'm a coward who doesn't dare to mess with sysex stuff, even with all the tools ready to handle midi stream parsing etc. My domain is database/knowledge management.
    ps: it's not the content that shrieks me away, but the conditions of communication with such hardware. There will be a lot of trial and error... as mentioned Kawai's own hardware controller crashed their synth in regular intervals. ;)

  • Well one thing we both love and that is the Casio CZ! It a shame Casio never added sysex control into their app version. I could have made music when traveling and then transferred the sysex files to the real hardware at the studio.

  • yes, the CZ is among the few hardware units I want to keep, as XD5 Drummy (great samples, but the synth engine also can tweak them into the most wiered stuff) and of course a Yamaha TX-7.

    Btw did you notice there is a randomize feature already in CZ-Touch ?
    To record sysex stuff on the go you just need a midi recorder and press 'dump' from time to time. Dunno a name atm, but there are several, even iPhone compatible.

    I perfectly understand that Casio didn't add sysex, it is really challenging without a dedicated library in current developement environments.
    And they won't build such a lib (expensive) for gear that's long out of production.

  • edited June 2018

    @Telefunky said:
    yes, the CZ is among the few hardware units I want to keep, as XD5 Drummy (great samples, but the synth engine also can tweak them into the most wiered stuff) and of course a Yamaha TX-7.

    Btw did you notice there is a randomize feature already in CZ-Touch ?
    To record sysex stuff on the go you just need a midi recorder and press 'dump' from time to time. Dunno a name atm, but there are several, even iPhone compatible.

    I perfectly understand that Casio didn't add sysex, it is really challenging without a dedicated library in current developement environments.
    And they won't build such a lib (expensive) for gear that's long out of production.

    Yep, it has a randomized feature but it is more useful when you can choose which section is randomized or/and a function to copy and paste the parameters, the pc version of midiquest has this built in.

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