Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

AU companion for non-AU Apps...

I just had an idea - please let me know if something like this exists, has been discussed, or can be done easily another way…

I use Patterning in nearly everything I do lately. One thing I can already see wanting is a way, while mixing in MonkeyMatrix or Aum, to access things like pattern change, fx, etc from within the host. I know you can do this with some setup... But why not make an AU that is used exclusively to talk to non AU apps without leaving the host? Midi only...

Also, there are lots of Apps I prefer the non-AU version because of the extended features etc... And several that haven't added AU that I still love, but don't like flipping all over the place to access them. Also, it seems like when switching screens crashes are a bit more likely, and sometimes there is a tiny but perceivable click or pause in audio. It would be great when performing to stay i the host as much as possible.

There are a couple ways I could see accomplishing this.. One way is to have non AU apps come with a small AU that just sends performance controls to its App, a companion AU of sorts.

Another way is to make a generic AU that does this for any non AU apps…

Working in ApeMatrix you could have access to all the cool AU control to easily liven up midi controllable aspects in the IAA or AB apps without leaving the host.

Discuss? Cheers…

Comments

  • It seems really hard to do this when having a spontaneous jam session. Switching around seems to come with the territory.
    But it seems you could still do this in a live scenario, just with lots of pre-planning and setup.
    If you get your ideas down and know what you need to have access to from each app, you could build something in an app like MidiDesigner to act as a single controller for all the different apps and their parameters. This would keep you from switching to the apps or the host. You would just stay in your customized control panel.
    I admit I haven’t done this, and I barely have scratched the surface of using MidiDesigner. But this is the sort of thing I am thinking about for doing a live performance jam session, and am currently exploring these ideas.

  • edited June 2018

    @CracklePot said:
    It seems really hard to do this when having a spontaneous jam session. Switching around seems to come with the territory.

    Yeah, I am mostly just programming midi controllers to do the things I want in the IAA / AB world... But there has been SO much demand for devs to offer AU support that it seems like a possible solution would be to just make a companion AU vs porting the whole App over. Sort of just a fancy midi template really...

  • @scottsunn said:

    @CracklePot said:
    It seems really hard to do this when having a spontaneous jam session. Switching around seems to come with the territory.

    Yeah, I am mostly just programming midi controllers to do the things I want in the IAA / AB world... But there has been SO much demand for devs to offer AU support that it seems like a possible solution would be to just make a companion AU vs porting the whole App over. Sort of just a fancy midi template really...

    You a.eeady have AU MIDI apps and you can use apps like MIDI Designer Pro 2 , TB MIDI Stuff, or Lemur to control a setup hosted in AUM and avoid the need to switch between apps as @CracklePot has suggested.

  • Yes, but it seems to me @scottsunn asked to be able to stay in aum while controlling external (non AU) parameters rather than working outside Aum. I think a generic AU midi controller could really add versatility to lots of setups!

  • wimwim
    edited June 2018

    Something like an AU version of Midi Designer Pro, is what I think I hear being described. Could be useful, with one big caveat. Most apps don’t have two way communication for their parameters. So, if a parameter is modified by automation or within tha app itself, it won’t be reflected in the control surface. That knob you thought was at 20% could be at anything. Also, even the ones with 2way communication don’t always dump their settings when you change presets. The control app could be completely out of whack for every parameter.

    Of course, same problem for hardware controllers and apps like Midi Designer Pro.

  • You a.eeady have AU MIDI apps and you can use apps like MIDI Designer Pro 2 , TB MIDI Stuff, or Lemur to control a setup hosted in AUM and avoid the need to switch between apps as @CracklePot has suggested.

    Yes, I understand that you can do it by cobbling together something custom, it just seems like an opportunity for a DEV to make something really slick they can sell and get worldwide fame, lovers, fancy cars etc...

    :)

  • edited June 2018

    @wim said:
    Something like an AU version of Midi Designer Pro, is what I think I hear being described. Could be useful, with one big caveat. Most apps don’t have two way communication for their parameters. So, if a parameter is modified by automation or within tha app itself, it won’t be reflected in the control surface. That knob you thought was at 20% could be at anything. Also, even the ones with 2way communication don’t always dump their settings when you change presets. The control app could be completely out of whack for every parameter.

    More what I envisioned would be DEVs, especially ones on this forum, ahem... could release a lightweight companion AU to be able to do some limited control / state saving within hosts like ApeM and AuM.

    Honestly, just to have really solid program change / associate presets in the IAA with presets in AU would be great.

  • @baldguru said:
    Yes, but it seems to me @scottsunn asked to be able to stay in aum while controlling external (non AU) parameters rather than working outside Aum. I think a generic AU midi controller could really add versatility to lots of setups!

    There are no reasons other than lack of economic motivation and insufficient AU support from Apple as to why we don’t already have more AU MIDI apps. Given this AU hill for developers, it’s worthwhile to see what existing AU MIDI apps, and MIDI controller surface apps can do. In addition, AU host apps could also provide more MIDI controller surface options to minimize the need to switch between apps.

    Perhaps the biggest drawback with IAA apps is the degree to which they support MIDI control which can vary widely and limits the degree to which any MIDI solution is viable for being able to remotely control them.

  • wimwim
    edited June 2018

    @scottsunn said:

    @wim said:
    Something like an AU version of Midi Designer Pro, is what I think I hear being described. Could be useful, with one big caveat. Most apps don’t have two way communication for their parameters. So, if a parameter is modified by automation or within tha app itself, it won’t be reflected in the control surface. That knob you thought was at 20% could be at anything. Also, even the ones with 2way communication don’t always dump their settings when you change presets. The control app could be completely out of whack for every parameter.

    More what I envisioned would be DEVs, especially ones on this forum, ahem... could release a lightweight companion AU to be able to do some limited control / state saving within hosts like ApeM and AuM

    I can’t envision how they could do that unless you meant one small app for every app you wanted to control.

  • I can’t envision how they could do that.

    Okay, I'm not all that versed in how these apps are built, but if I could make a midi template to do it, why couldn't an AU app do that instead?

    But YES, I get your point about not being lazy and just doing it with what is available. Cheers.

  • @wim said:
    Something like an AU version of Midi Designer Pro, is what I think I hear being described. Could be useful, with one big caveat. Most apps don’t have two way communication for their parameters. So, if a parameter is modified by automation or within tha app itself, it won’t be reflected in the control surface. That knob you thought was at 20% could be at anything. Also, even the ones with 2way communication don’t always dump their settings when you change presets. The control app could be completely out of whack for every parameter.

    I can see the inherent problem you bring up, maybe just strip it down to program change only, which is what I want to be able to do in host with Patterning... That wouldn't have a here or there conflict of midi interest, but maybe I'm missing something.

  • edited June 2018

    Come to think of it, is there a common format for program / preset change? I've had a really hard time even getting my Keylab49 to change presets on different synth apps, because it seems there are a few different formats, not all playing nice together...

    Same with transport controls, it doesn't seem all that standardized.

    Maybe a Rozetta type plug that simply allows sequencing of program changes, with templates the way they do for drum machines...

  • Program change would be easy enough I would think.

  • edited June 2018

    @scottsunn said:

    I can’t envision how they could do that.

    Okay, I'm not all that versed in how these apps are built, but if I could make a midi template to do it, why couldn't an AU app do that instead?

    But YES, I get your point about not being lazy and just doing it with what is available. Cheers.

    There are only a very few developers, @brambos, Laurent Colson, UVI, and @FredAntonCorvest that have AU apps which send out MIDI which could be used to control IAA apps.

    The AudioKit team is trying to develop a way to provide better infrastructure in an open source project so that programming for AU will be more straight forward (100+ developers have contributed to this project). A number of developers have said they don’t have the ability currently to create AU apps. While it’d be nice to have more AU options, there are technical barriers which slow down the development of such apps.

    Apple’s lack of adequate documentation and support for AU development is the primary reason for this according to the developers who’ve addressed the subject. Stories on the recent Apple developer’s conference indicate that Apple did nothing to improve this situation either.

  • I wonder if a full blown midi controller in AUM would be the best, at least for AUM users. It could function like the existing KB in AUM, but have an assortment of knobs, faders, buttons, toggles, wheels, whatever. You could map these to AU plugins, hopefully with that new mapping method that was described in the AUM thread. You should check that one out if you haven’t already.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/26648/simplified-midi-routing-in-aum-yay-or-no#latest

    Even if it is through the existing MidiControl, it could still be good. I kind of think having it native in AUM would be better than a third party AU

  • Someone could make a generic midi-cc / program change sending app easily enough. But, apps can have any of 128 midi cc’s, which means at least that many knobs. So, now you need to be able to select at least the order you want them in. Then, you have switches, centered type controls (like pan) etc. to think about. Those knobs will need configurable labels unless you can memorize which cc goes to what. Then, some apps have midi-learn, some don’t, so now you need customizable maps between the knobs and what they control. The difficulties keep piling up until you basically need something like a Midi Designer Pro.

    It’s a bit like it might be trying to design a handheld controller that could drive bikes, motorcycles, cars, trains, and planes of all makes and models. You could make a thousand hand controllers, or you could make one that is customizable, but you can’t make something that would work for everything as there are too many variables.

  • @CracklePot said:
    I wonder if a full blown midi controller in AUM would be the best, at least for AUM users. It could function like the existing KB in AUM, but have an assortment of knobs, faders, buttons, toggles, wheels, whatever. You could map these to AU plugins, hopefully with that new mapping method that was described in the AUM thread. You should check that one out if you haven’t already.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/26648/simplified-midi-routing-in-aum-yay-or-no#latest

    Even if it is through the existing MidiControl, it could still be good. I kind of think having it native in AUM would be better than a third party AU

    I would still prefer third party AU options so that AUM uses as few resources as possible, perhaps being able to toggle AUM controller options on/off would be good. In addition 3rd party AU MIDI apps can have more specialized functionality which you wouldn’t need or want in every setup so you could mix and match AU MIDI apps according to what you need.

  • wimwim
    edited June 2018

    Such an app, with, like 8-16 knobs, that each could be assigned to a cc, labeled, and maybe have min/max range set, with state saving, and preset saving, could be super useful, and probably pretty easy to do, though.

    Is that more what you were envisioning?

    Maybe a bit like Rozeta X/Y with more controls? Come to think of it, have you considered using X/Y for this? That’s four easy controls right there.

  • Here is what I've been doing at work, its sorta the ultimate midi routing universe, using Max/MSP... Its all about the 'groups', which allow incoming midi to be prioritized based on group hierarchies, and be sent, modified, scaled, etc beyond what is needed, ha! I just got sick of not having enough. The point of it is to take midi note on/offs and do more interesting stuff with them. I wish I could make max apps for iOS...


  • Here it is unlocked, spaghetti spiderweb!

  • @scottsunn said:

    Here it is unlocked, spaghetti spiderweb!

    Ok. You have totally freaked me out here. :D

  • @InfoCheck said:

    @CracklePot said:
    I wonder if a full blown midi controller in AUM would be the best, at least for AUM users. It could function like the existing KB in AUM, but have an assortment of knobs, faders, buttons, toggles, wheels, whatever. You could map these to AU plugins, hopefully with that new mapping method that was described in the AUM thread. You should check that one out if you haven’t already.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/26648/simplified-midi-routing-in-aum-yay-or-no#latest

    Even if it is through the existing MidiControl, it could still be good. I kind of think having it native in AUM would be better than a third party AU

    I would still prefer third party AU options so that AUM uses as few resources as possible, perhaps being able to toggle AUM controller options on/off would be good. In addition 3rd party AU MIDI apps can have more specialized functionality which you wouldn’t need or want in every setup so you could mix and match AU MIDI apps according to what you need.

    I hear you. Would be more versatile as an AU as well. I still think it would be more stable as a native component, with no app switching involved. But then that is pushing AUM more towards being a DAW, and that is probably not a good thing, I agree.
    Fuck, I have no idea what is better. Good thing I just make suggestions in ignorance, as opposed to actually making apps. :D

  • Same method could be used to create AU Controllers for hardware too...

  • Ok. You have totally freaked me out here. :D

    I know, right? The problem, for me anyways, with programming... is the lack of stop signs. I would likely have a very hard time making iOS apps without completely overdoing it. Frames are good for me, take away most options and I can actually do something. Give me all the options and I worry there are others out there I might be missing out on.

  • I’ve been harking on about new and creative AU midi controllers for what seems like an age now.

    While I see the OPs idea as quite good in theory, in practice IAA apps have lots of other issues. I think while the idea has some merit, things will change in time so that most the things we still crave from certain IAA apps, will have AU apps that do what we need. Trying to shoehorn IAA apps into the evolution of AU is never going to be much more than keeping the old apps around for the sake of (or just because we feel attached to them and what we spent on them).

    Personally I just want to draw my own personal line now and forget most my old IAA only apps ready for the future :)

    Remember this is my own personal view and I know that some hate the idea of IAA being so flippantly discarded :p

  • So, Audiobus remote? :)

  • @CracklePot said:

    Fuck, I have no idea what is better. Good thing I just make suggestions in ignorance, as opposed to actually making apps. :D

    Okay, so I took a tiny peek at Midi Designer Pro, and I have to say... I'm super intrigued. My question is how it stacks up to Lemur or TouchOSC, which I own both. Granted, I haven't opened either in quite a while now.

    Also, does it tend to go on sale? Does the Dev post here at ABForum?

    Cheers

  • wimwim
    edited June 2018

    Lemur and TouchOSC require use of a desktop to create and edit control surfaces, at least for anything serious, which kills it for me. MDP is a bit ugly IMO but rock solid and powerful enough to do just about anything, especially now that it has StreamByter for advanced scripting.

  • edited June 2018

    @wim said:
    Lemur and TouchOSC require use of a desktop to create and edit control surfaces, at least for anything serious, which kills it for me. MDP is a bit ugly IMO but rock solid and powerful enough to do just about anything, especially now that it has StreamByter for advanced scripting.

    Well, I'm currently on the laptop using TouchOSC making a controller for my live setup, which is SeekBeats, ElasticDrums, Patterning, a few synths running in MonkeyMatrix. Going to try and make this so I don't ever have to tab out to any App during a performance... Wish me luck, and happy to share it if I think its useful.

    Edit: Definitely not doing this in Lemur, TouchOSC works way better so far...

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