Sennheiser HD 600

I wanted to update my headphones for mixing purposes.
I currently use Audiotechnica ATH-M50 which I really like the sound of. But when I play back through my NS10s the mix is usually quite different sounding and not like it was in the cans.
The contenders are:
Sennheiser HD600
Or
Sony MDR 7506

Are the Sennheiser worth the money?

Im moving to China soon and my studio will stay at my home until my return in a few years but wanted something to use that was faithfull while away.

Thanks for looking.

DB

Comments

  • I use an old HD 590, which i like.
    The HD 600 will most probably not be worse.

  • edited May 2018

    The sennheiser HD380's sound very good, and are about half the price. I think it wouldn't be totally crazy to try and mix on those, in a pinch. It might not be a bad idea to pick up a medium size boombox in china, if you can find one that isn't super hyped sounding, to check your work on.

    There are reasons mixing on headphones can be problematic, that can't be solved with nicer/more expensive headphones. One is that details are very clear, so, your sense of your mix sounding amazing, and detailed, can be premature, when it may actually sound muffled and indistinct on regular speakers. Also, bass response is usually quite good on headphones, which can lead to issues with the mix translating to systems without deep, extended low end. It can be confusing getting bass to translate, because you can be hearing a lot of sub bass, but the mix may not have good bass, like 80 to 150hz. If there isn't some presence in bass instruments in the upper bass, and low mids, it will disappear on smaller speakers.

    Another thing that is hard to gauge on headphones, is reverb. Because it is a perfectly dry listening environment, it can lead to problems gauging how much reverb to use- you may not use enough, or the right size, for the reverb to register to listeners with stereos. One other problem I've had mixing on headphones, is using too much ambience/room type reverb, invisible reverb to tie the mix together. It will sound good in the cans, but washy and off, unclear, on speakers. In the cans there is no room, so it is tempting to add lots of it, but then when that room sound, gets played back into a real room, with its own little echoes, it often sounds bad- too many rooms.

  • edited May 2018

    the HD600 has an impedance spec of 300 Ohm, which may be too high for some mobile devices. Imho it's too hifi for mix/editing.
    In that domain I rely on the AKG K-series, prefering the classic models 501, 601, 701 which are all out of sale.
    Anyway - all new models feature increased bass response in comparison to the 'classics', something most listeners appreciate. Everything else (about the acoustic image) is fairly consistent throughout the K series.
    They are the closest thing to speakers that I'm aware of and very comfortable to wear.
    You may check a 702 or 712pro.

    The Sony MDR 7506 is a studio classic, but with it's closed design delivers a less natural acoustic image. It's also less convenient as it sits right on the ear and iirc the construction is a bit fragile.

  • @Telefunky So, a AKG K-702 or K-712 Pro ...

    About 131 or 214 Euro.
    Are they full over-ear and do not apply too much pressure?

    My HD 590 is very comfortable and has 120 Ohm ... which should be OK, or?

  • HD600s require a headphone amp to drive them properly, or at least something like an audio interface that can drive high impedance cans.

    Also the Sennheiser sound is about as far away as you can get from the NS10 sound, so expect your mixes to sound much better, warmer, and fuller in the cans than on the monitors.

  • edited May 2018

    yes, 120 Ohm is ok - and the K-Series is always wide over the ear, I use them for everything, no problems with pressure or sweat.
    Btw the sides are exchangeable. I usually buy old versions 2nd hand, exchange the sides and clean the headband with alcohol = new cans o:)
    (doing so because I'm so used to their specific sound, don't bother if it's your first AKG)

  • I very much doubt that the HD600 has a long enough cable to reach to China. For that, you’ll need the upgraded model, I forget the number.

  • Maybe (only a suggestion) but go for cans with around 16 to 32 ohms? ( if your monitoring straight for your iPad/iPhone. After higher than 32ohms you will maybe have to think about a headphone amp, as @richardyot says. But, choosing the right headphone amp maybe tricky, as some amp colour the sound slightly. My Focal Spirit Pro'S are nice, but are a bit pricey, but you pay for you get really. It would be best for you to go to a decent music shop & try them all out yourself, as everyone's ears hear differently. It's ok for some to say, " Sony's are the best" or "Sennishers are the what the studios use"....... it's all down to personal preference, & the music you create too. Also, another main point, is how good your ears are? For example, 5 guys listening to a track with the same setting on the Master, with the same headphones in a studio would differ there option from others?.... Maybe?......

  • @u0421793
    Very funny LOL :smiley:

  • Thanks all for the replies.
    I think the 600s are a nono for the ipad due to the need for an external amp etc. I was intending to maybe take my iconnect with me so maybe that would work. But I suppose the more important specification is that the cans need to be be neutral and flat just like my ns10s are with my akai amp.
    The internet is full of suggestions and they seem to point towards the 600s and AkGs. I did see the 600s for 150 second hand though so maybe it could be a wise option?

  • @dblonde said:
    Thanks all for the replies.
    I think the 600s are a nono for the ipad due to the need for an external amp etc. I was intending to maybe take my iconnect with me so maybe that would work. But I suppose the more important specification is that the cans need to be be neutral and flat just like my ns10s are with my akai amp.

    Well the NS10s are not flat (they do not accurately reproduce bass), but let's not get into that. My guess is that you would be happier with the AKG sound signature than the Sennheiser one but the best bet would be to try and listen to some headphones before buying if you can.

    If you want "flat" sounding headphones you might like the Status CB-1, quite good value and much closer to the NS10 sound:

    https://thestatusaudio.com/products/cb1

  • The AKG K-Series cover the 'transparent midrange' feature for which the NS10 are known quite well, but in a more balanced overall context.
    Quality cans have their sound signature, even if designed to be linear. The frequency response diagrams published in specs are loudness based and therefore lack the phase aspect.
    If one prefers AKG, Beyerdynamics, Sennheiser is a matter of taste - and (most importantly) what you're used to. I often use a pair of Sennheiser IE 4 in-ears to cross check with a more hifi-sound, but the workhorse is the K501.
    I admit I have a deep distrust in anything by AKG (now a part of the Harman group) since they gave up their Austrian production ... but I'd buy any AKG microphone built pre 1980 unlistened. o:)

  • My HD 580s are my favourite headphones but, as noted by others, (a) mobile devices are not powerful enough to drive them properly; and (b) they do not have anything approaching a linear profile.

    Not a good choice for mixing on an iDevice. Fantastic choice for listening to music from a good quality HiFI.

  • I am a huge fan of the HD 650, more often than not mixing with them. Of course, I use my Apogee, never the headphone jack.

  • P.S.: bear in mind the HD650 is not a variant of the HD600. It's a different beast, and it's night and day IMO.

  • Slightly OT, but I use the HD650 for mixing on desktop, and paired with the Sonarworks Reference 4 headphone edition plugin, the results translate much better than without correction.

    Headphone calibration software on iOS would be super useful, something like Sonarworks or Toneboosters Morphit (which is available on Android).

  • edited May 2018

    Calibration software may help with the more obvious parts of the mix - the ones that may quite easily be 'extrapolated' with listening experience.

    I use some very sophisticated software (by Zynaptiq) that can adjust any room response and distance impression of a signal, but it's a hell to tweak to get the appropriate response for any given task.
    Because settings are very (!) sensitive and may interact - a tiny bit above the sweet spot and it turns to rubbish, a bit below results in 'not significant'.

    Software can only calculate what's supposed to be neutral by physical parameters.
    It cannot include personal ear response and (more important) your individual adjustment to sound in your acoustic environment.

    You can do a nice 'self adjustment' experiment with out-of-phase cans:
    play a mono signal the regular way, then plug the cans into a symmetric line out, most deliver enough level and there's no harm for the output stage.
    You'll immediately notice there's something different (now inverted polarity on one side).
    If you forget about that and just play a bass, guitar, whatever, mono signal for some time, the 'difference' will vanish and your sound impression turns to 'natural', probably after 10-20 minutes.

    The brain will simply ignore the inverted phase because it's constant and doesn't contribute in any way to the mono signal. Same happens with resonances in your room or gear, at least partly.

  • Just wanted to revisit this thread to say that I went for the Status Audio recommendation and can say that I am extremely impressed with the headphones. Very transparent and definately make monitoring and mixing in cans more accurate than what I was previously using.
    The CB1s are well made and took around 10 days to Netherlands.

    Thanks Richard for the heads-up.
    :)

  • @richardyot said:
    Well the NS10s are not flat (they do not accurately reproduce bass), but let's not get into that. My guess is that you would be happier with the AKG sound signature than the Sennheiser one but the best bet would be to try and listen to some headphones before buying if you can.

    I think that's exactly the point. The issue is rather with the NS10 than with the ATH-M50 ;)

    The trick is to make your mix sound good on both!

  • @dblonde said:
    Just wanted to revisit this thread to say that I went for the Status Audio recommendation and can say that I am extremely impressed with the headphones. Very transparent and definately make monitoring and mixing in cans more accurate than what I was previously using.
    The CB1s are well made and took around 10 days to Netherlands.

    Thanks Richard for the heads-up.
    :)

    Glad to have helped. :)

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