Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Behringer UMC 404 HD issues

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Comments

  • @AndyPlankton Any particular tests you would like me to preform? I have some free time since the US Government is shutdown.

  • @gmslayton said:
    @AndyPlankton Any particular tests you would like me to preform? I have some free time since the US Government is shutdown.

    Hey Mitch, yeah, stress the unit and USB as much as possible....all tracks taking input, jam the midi with Notes, Clock and CC's...

    I would be using the unit to record sessions which are a mix of sequenced and live playing using a BassStation2, MiniNova, Alesis DM5, Circuit, Electribe Sampler and Line 6 Amplifi TT so that's actually 11 channels (12 if I route the BassStation through my FX unit) recording audio into Cubasis.....Id also like to be recording midi at the same time (16 channels) and sending MIDI clock.....This is why i was looking at the 8 track version (1820)...not entirely sure yet how to get access to the other 10 channels, I call it 8 track version because you only have 8 pre-amps, the other inputs are SPDIF/ADAT/sMux so I'm guessing I'd need some sort of expansion similar to those made by Focusrite to get the additional inputs but 8 would do for now and be a lot easier than my current stereo only input :D

  • @AndyPlankton said:

    @gmslayton said:
    @AndyPlankton Any particular tests you would like me to preform? I have some free time since the US Government is shutdown.

    Hey Mitch, yeah, stress the unit and USB as much as possible....all tracks taking input, jam the midi with Notes, Clock and CC's...

    I would be using the unit to record sessions which are a mix of sequenced and live playing using a BassStation2, MiniNova, Alesis DM5, Circuit, Electribe Sampler and Line 6 Amplifi TT so that's actually 11 channels (12 if I route the BassStation through my FX unit) recording audio into Cubasis.....Id also like to be recording midi at the same time (16 channels) and sending MIDI clock.....This is why i was looking at the 8 track version (1820)...not entirely sure yet how to get access to the other 10 channels, I call it 8 track version because you only have 8 pre-amps, the other inputs are SPDIF/ADAT/sMux so I'm guessing I'd need some sort of expansion similar to those made by Focusrite to get the additional inputs but 8 would do for now and be a lot easier than my current stereo only input :D

    I believe you can use the Behringer ADA8200 for an extra 8 Midas pre inputs, I’m hoping to get the 1820 too.

  • @knewspeak said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @gmslayton said:
    @AndyPlankton Any particular tests you would like me to preform? I have some free time since the US Government is shutdown.

    Hey Mitch, yeah, stress the unit and USB as much as possible....all tracks taking input, jam the midi with Notes, Clock and CC's...

    I would be using the unit to record sessions which are a mix of sequenced and live playing using a BassStation2, MiniNova, Alesis DM5, Circuit, Electribe Sampler and Line 6 Amplifi TT so that's actually 11 channels (12 if I route the BassStation through my FX unit) recording audio into Cubasis.....Id also like to be recording midi at the same time (16 channels) and sending MIDI clock.....This is why i was looking at the 8 track version (1820)...not entirely sure yet how to get access to the other 10 channels, I call it 8 track version because you only have 8 pre-amps, the other inputs are SPDIF/ADAT/sMux so I'm guessing I'd need some sort of expansion similar to those made by Focusrite to get the additional inputs but 8 would do for now and be a lot easier than my current stereo only input :D

    I believe you can use the Behringer ADA8200 for an extra 8 Midas pre inputs, I’m hoping to get the 1820 too.

    Ahh yes that'd do it...cheers :)

  • If you're using the UMC through a powered USB hub, you're going to have issues. Behringer admitted it in one of their forums a long time ago.

    Using straight to iPad it's a great, cheap AI.

  • @MonkeyDrummer said:
    If you're using the UMC through a powered USB hub, you're going to have issues. Behringer admitted it in one of their forums a long time ago.

    Using straight to iPad it's a great, cheap AI.

    Wow, that's the exact opposite to what one would think. Power overload? Weird.

  • @supadom said:

    @MonkeyDrummer said:
    If you're using the UMC through a powered USB hub, you're going to have issues. Behringer admitted it in one of their forums a long time ago.

    Using straight to iPad it's a great, cheap AI.

    Wow, that's the exact opposite to what one would think. Power overload? Weird.

    No, I don't think it's power related. My guess is that going through the hub causes some kind of data/sync dropout. It typically results in bursts of horrible static/noise. And not "good" noise. Good noise is what my music sounds like. :)

  • So mine's on the truck for delivery and I'm climbing up the walls waiting for it.

    Tom Petty said it best - the waiting is the hardest part.

  • @Michael @j_liljedahl I thought I might bring you guys into this conversation.

    After reading this tread, I started testing some things. It seems, regardless if I am using a powersupply with the UMC-404HD or strictly bus powered, USB hub, regardless of the configuration, on the iPad the volume is low. Now inside of AUM, there is a mic gain option in the settings and it seems to be set to 75%. When you increase it to 100%, you get tons more volume from the inputs.

    Now in AB3, there seems to be no such settings as with ApeMatrix. I haven't tested any DAWs yet but I did hook it up to my Macbook and inside of ableton I am getting loads of volume from the interface. Is that something you could add in to the settings of Audiobus similar to what is in AUM?

    I believe this could solve a lot of issues. I can do a video explaining what I mean if that would help.

  • @gmslayton said:
    @Michael @j_liljedahl I thought I might bring you guys into this conversation.

    After reading this tread, I started testing some things. It seems, regardless if I am using a powersupply with the UMC-404HD or strictly bus powered, USB hub, regardless of the configuration, on the iPad the volume is low. Now inside of AUM, there is a mic gain option in the settings and it seems to be set to 75%. When you increase it to 100%, you get tons more volume from the inputs.

    Now in AB3, there seems to be no such settings as with ApeMatrix. I haven't tested any DAWs yet but I did hook it up to my Macbook and inside of ableton I am getting loads of volume from the interface. Is that something you could add in to the settings of Audiobus similar to what is in AUM?

    I believe this could solve a lot of issues. I can do a video explaining what I mean if that would help.

    I confirm this is a consistent problem. The gain on the UMC404HD hardware inputs by default are extremely low, I have found this to be the case in AUM and AB as well as Loopy HD. But some other apps seem to work fine (oddly so).

    I work around this by adding a separate gain effect to the channel in AUM. In AB it can by fixed by increasing the channel gain on the mixer page in AB 3. I have to set the additional gain at about +24db for iOS monitoring volume to match the direct monitoring volume of the 404HD.

    I've always assumed the problem is the fault of Behringer for somehow implementing Class-Compliant software improperly. But if there is something that could be done in iOS apps that would be great.

  • @MonkeyDrummer said:

    @supadom said:

    @MonkeyDrummer said:
    If you're using the UMC through a powered USB hub, you're going to have issues. Behringer admitted it in one of their forums a long time ago.

    Using straight to iPad it's a great, cheap AI.

    Wow, that's the exact opposite to what one would think. Power overload? Weird.

    No, I don't think it's power related. My guess is that going through the hub causes some kind of data/sync dropout. It typically results in bursts of horrible static/noise. And not "good" noise. Good noise is what my music sounds like. :)

    Yes I know this kind of ‘white noise/static problem with ios.
    I used to get random stabs of it through my X Station back during ios7 and 8 days but it seemed to fix itself at some point ( or more likely some update addressed the problem). It was like suddenly changing channels to an empty tv station. Definitely not a good look playing live I recall. This was not through a hub, and the fact that : in subsequent iterations of ios the problem disappeared , leads me to wonder if this may be an ios problem and that contact with the Behringer is being lost somehow by ios and not vice versa.

    I think I may hold off for a while on the umc. Sometimes a hub is desirable. Also the need to boost audio levels sounds like a drag. Its a pity, as it ticks all the boxes. However I already have problems with the 2 Behringer uca202 that I own..these both exhibit low level beeping sounds with ios but not windows.

    30 years of computer music and its still a struggle to have a smooth uninterrupted noise and glitch free workflow. Perhaps I should resuscitate the old Atari st which was my first computer.
    Now that was rock solid. Limited ( hugely) by todays standards. But rock solid.

  • edited January 11

    @Jes I definitely understand choosing not to buy the UMC404 when there are issues like this. I used to have a Focusrite 2i2 which sounded just as great, for about the same price ($150 I think) and had zero quirks, just rock solid. The only thing is you get less inputs/outputs and no MIDI in/out.

    If you want to go with a similar featured Focusrite interface, you have to pay almost $300 for the 6i6 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E6T50GY

    For me it was worth dealing with the UMC404HD quirks in order to have more features at a lower price. I'm happy I have it. :smile:

  • @Daveypoo how’s the interface?

  • Man - I totally forgot about this thread! Sorry - life this past week was nuts.

    Everything's working just fine over here. Haven't run all 4 inputs simultaneously yet, but I got the MIDI in/out working, works with or without the hub (mostly using it with)... So far so good. This thing is a ridiculous steal for the price. I wish the headphone output was a bit louder, but I'm so deaf after all these years of rocking out its probably just my ears.

    Looking forward to using this in come upcoming videos - having 4 inputs and the MIDI in/outs really open up options for me.

  • @Daveypoo said:
    Man - I totally forgot about this thread! Sorry - life this past week was nuts.

    Everything's working just fine over here. Haven't run all 4 inputs simultaneously yet, but I got the MIDI in/out working, works with or without the hub (mostly using it with)... So far so good. This thing is a ridiculous steal for the price. I wish the headphone output was a bit louder, but I'm so deaf after all these years of rocking out its probably just my ears.

    Looking forward to using this in come upcoming videos - having 4 inputs and the MIDI in/outs really open up options for me.

    Just got my umc 1820 so far, so good, the two headphone outs on this seem to have plenty enough volume, it’s loud about a third of the full volume.

  • edited January 19

    Auria Pro keeps setting the level (internally) on the Umc1820 to 76%, I reset this back to 100% in Audioshare, but when I return to Auria again the level resets to 76%. Does anyone know if it’s possible to stop this behaviour.

    I have now solved this problem, the record level popup, sets the level to 0dB, which equates to the 76% in Audioshare, increasing the level to +40dB sets the level back to 100% in Audioshare.

  • Hi all, quick question on this interface : so my AG06 works great and I have a old Behringer mixer which is not USB ...I want to connect external effects like the bluesky and want to bring back the output back into Loopy on the iPad...should I go for a USB mixer with 4 outputs and audio interface built in and that has a fx return or shall I go with something like 404hd which has multiple output bit does it have a way to fx loop in external pedal ? @Daveypoo , something like you just showed in your videos but with Focusrite and not a mixer ..
    I was thinking of something like Behringer X1222usb or 1204usb or perhaps Soundcraft notepad-8fx mixer...?

  • edited January 30

    I just took a quick look at the X1222USB and that looks like it has all the right elements for what you're trying to accomplish.

    Let me see if I fully understand what you want to do:
    Send audio from the iPad out to external effects then back into the same iPad to Loopy. Is that right?

    Whatever you get needs to have separately assignable ins and outs so you don't create a feedback loop, though I would think that nowadays most USB interfaces would present their ins/outs to the computer this way. Also, you would need two independent outputs for the same reason. If you can confirm this, then it's easy to do. Here's an example of my line of thinking:

    iPad app sends audio to interface outputs 1 & 2 (L & R).
    The output is routed to your external effect.
    External effect is routed in to inputs 1 & 2 of the interface.
    Inputs 1 & 2 send audio to Loopy.
    Send finished audio to interface output 3 & 4 (L & R).

    This is the principle, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work assuming the ins/outs of the interface are individually assignable, as I mentioned above. This part may need to be handled by AUM or something similar on the iPad.

    Does this make sense? If my thinking is correct (may not be), then you wouldn't need an effects loop. However, if the interface had an effect loop, it would make this whole point moot as the effect loop should accomplish the above.

    Someone else chime in and tell me if I'm way off base here....

  • @Daveypoo said:
    I just took a quick look at the X1222USB and that looks like it has all the right elements for what you're trying to accomplish.

    Let me see if I fully understand what you want to do:
    Send audio from the iPad out to external effects then back into the same iPad to Loopy. Is that right?

    Whatever you get needs to have separately assignable ins and outs so you don't create a feedback loop, though I would think that nowadays most USB interfaces would present their ins/outs to the computer this way. Also, you would need two independent outputs for the same reason. If you can confirm this, then it's easy to do. Here's an example of my line of thinking:

    iPad app sends audio to interface outputs 1 & 2 (L & R).
    The output is routed to your external effect.
    External effect is routed in to inputs 1 & 2 of the interface.
    Inputs 1 & 2 send audio to Loopy.
    Send finished audio to interface output 3 & 4 (L & R).

    This is the principle, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work assuming the ins/outs of the interface are individually assignable, as I mentioned above. This part may need to be handled by AUM or something similar on the iPad.

    Does this make sense? If my thinking is correct (may not be), then you wouldn't need an effects loop. However, if the interface had an effect loop, it would make this whole point moot as the effect loop should accomplish the above.

    Someone else chime in and tell me if I'm way off base here....

    Yes, I think you have it right. Guitar would go in the same mixer/interface and that would also have the audio routed via the external effects back into the mixer/interface and then into iPad for recording. Hopefully fx quantity can be controlled so guitar gets the effects,mic gets no effects and iPad audio gets the effects also.
    The Behringer 1202usb ( https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QX1202USB--behringer-xenyx-qx1202usb-mixer-with-usb-and-effects) seems to be the smaller version that is ata good price , but will it work with iPad is the question !

  • That I don't know. "Class compliant" is what will tell you if it'll work, but I couldn't see that anywhere in the description on Sweetwater's page.

  • I've been testing this out today - it is still a problem.


    I have set up a test patch in both AUM and Audiobus - with Mic input from USB 1 feeding directly to the USB1/2 outs.

    As noted the level is much lower than expected... according to the LED on the UMC404 when the signal should be peaking out at 0dB it is still really quiet in Audiobus and AUM.

    But yes with AUM you can adjust the MIC INPUT Input Gain from 75% where it appears initially up to 100%, and then with AUM it seems to work correctly compared to the front panel LEDs.

    If you switch to Audiobus the signal is still really low - there is no way to adjust the Mic Input gain.

    If you then swap back to AUM and reload the preset the Mic Gain has gone back to 75%. It seems like Audiobus (and other apps from what you guys are saying) must be reading the 75% from somewhere - perhaps within the Class Compliant driver within the UMC404?

    @Michael - It would be great if Audiobus had an option to adjust the Mic Gain levels.

    Interestingly I just opened AUM with nothing plugged in - and with the built in iPad mic the Mic Input Gain had opened up on 16%. I just looked on my iPhoneSE and the Mic Gain said 100%.

  • Isn’t the fader above the mic in mixer section controlling gain for the input?

  • Hmm - maybe you're right - I will have to check - I would have thought that would have been then output from the mic to the next thing - that's how mixers usually work.

    If you just set up a mic you only have the one fader - is it the Mic Gain? Or is it the Mic Fader level?

  • I bought this and a pair of Kali Audio LP-8. Unfortunately I can't find my CCK. So far I've only been able to use my laptop but the sound is great.

  • edited February 21

    It is the fader between the mic source and wherever the signal is going next. This is how all of the mixers I’ve ever used work.


  • This image is from a simple mixer. There is another gain stage between the mic socket and the EQ controls. On a proper mixer you have access to the control - and also a PAD to reduce the signal if it is too hot, the low cut filter and so on. On this simple mixer the Mic Gain control will be internally fixed - perhaps to around 40dB gain. That brings up the mic level up to approx the same level as the line socket so that the signal is the right level for the EQ controls and the rest of the circuit.


    Here's a slightly more full channel strip: The Gain control is usually the first knob beneath the XLR sockets. The fader is right at the bottom after all the EQs and Aux sends.



  • Having said all that above ^ it doesn't really help as software can be set up totally different internally to the way it appears on the screen.

  • Yes, but from what I understand from your user case you’re trying to amplify input volume, right? The fader in Audiobus will do that I believe. Might be wrong though, have you tried it with UMC?


  • I just tested a mic plugged into Audiobus with the fader at max ( is it +24dB or +34dB - my eyesight is failing lol ! ) versus into AUM with the fader set at 0 but with the Mic Gain set to 100%.

    AUM is still a fair amount louder than Audiobus - perhaps 8 or 10dB louder

    @supadom I don't really want to amplify the input volume - I just don't want it to be reduced before it gets to the fader! But yes, thinking of it in those terms... I suppose a work around is to put an AUv3 into the signal path to bring the Mic level up to where it should be. Its just annoying that it gets turned down automatically.

    @Michael - can you confirm how Audiobus deals with the "Mic Gain" issue. As I said I've noticed that on AUM when I use the built in iPad mic the Mic Gain goes to 16% and it gives a good level. At 100% it clips like crazy!

  • edited February 21

    I use the UMC404HD for iOS recording. To set the correct gain on inputs I always do a few things:

    1. First, make sure the iPad’s physical volume buttons are set to max. For some reason these behringer interfaces allow the iPad volume buttons to control the external interface volume. Most audio interfaces do not work this way so it is easy to forget this. (And as a result all output can be lower than expected)
    2. Second, I use the “direct monitoring” knob called “MIX” on the 404HD as a way to easily compare levels between what is coming in thru the hardware inputs and what is being received on the iPad. I adjust the gain in AUM or AB3 to match the direct monitored levels.

    In AUM, the latest update seems correct when input is set at 100%. no extra gain is needed.

    In AB3, it seems like the Behringer interface defaults to lowered input and you have to set the fader to +24db like @ricksteruk mentioned.

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