PSA: Don't update to iOS 12.4 if you use apps in AB output slot or IAA apps that use the mic.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34030/urgent-psa-hold-off-updating-to-ios-12-4-if-you-use-apps-in-output-slot-in-audiobus

Pro drum machine pad/looper for a band live?

hello iOS world.. Help Seeking app/s to use as live rhythm with a band. Have looked at loads of videos. So many apps out there, it’s rather confusing.

Need to loop midi-pad bash performance of one-shots, with quantise, note-repeat, loop structure/mixing and variation(swing, humanise).

Separate audio out or sends per track/loop/pad would also be nice. As well as adsr/velocity/gate/eq/automation/modulation/randomisation, but not essential.

Essential feature is solid use when live

Pretty confused where to start.. all the examples I can find have peeps jumping between screens in deep feature rich apps like BM3, that won’t work on stage, or 4:4 grooveboxes like iMaschine or Launchpad with pre-made loops without pro variation controls.

What might be the best app combination to beat this? Is this the best place to ask? Is anyone doing this, right?

ta+ .r

Comments

  • Need to loop midi-pad bash performance of one-shots, with quantise, note-repeat, loop structure/mixing and variation(swing, humanise and adsr/velocity/gate/eq control/automation )

    This is quite a lot to understand. I don't think any one app can really cover all of this other than something on the scale of Ableton/Logic. That said, I might be reading some of it wrong.

    Maybe instead of a single sentence with 15 features you might list them out one by one with a little more detail? Then, forum folks might be able to say something like 'app X will cover 1, 3, 4, 7 and 9'. I dunno.

  • edited April 2018

    Beatmaker 3?
    (Edit) Sorry didn't see you had already dismissed BM3 ..........

  • A real drummer?

  • edited April 2018

    I've given it a bit more thought. If i was doing it, i would use AUM, as a mixer with the apps & FX i needed on separate channels, perhaps with Audiobus 3 in there as well if i needed to send midi to anything. Unlees i had money to invest in a rock solid audio interface, i would take the audio out of the iPad via the stereo headphone jack, with the heaviest duty 3.5mm - jack/xlr lead i could afford..........

  • Thinking the closest single app experience might be Modstep, built in instruments, a hardware controller to mess with instrument controls without switching views and maybe some upfront work in MIDIFlow/MIDI Fire to connect some dots might do it.

    You said "looper" which makes me think audio but then mentioned swing and variations which makes me think you want a midi looper. Modstep isn't exactly (what I think of as) a looper but it can create and manipulate midi pattern/loops.

  • edited April 2018

    have you tried impc pro 2

    "Need to loop midi-pad bash performance of one-shots, with quantise, note-repeat, loop structure/mixing and variation(swing, humanise and adsr/velocity/gate/eq control/automation )"

  • edited April 2018

    Thanks guys.

    Following advice from SyrupCore:
    Simplyfiying the requirement for a pad-bashing one-shot midi-looper designed for live use with variation/humanisation controls

    I’m not dismissing BM3, it’s just I can’t find examples of people using it live as just a solid drum-machine for jamming.

    thanks Sonamoto....
    iMPCpro appears to not have auto-humanise/randomisation, or be designed specifically as a one-shot... although last months update does record automation that is cool and could add variation.

    ... Modstep looks interesting but again overkill. Lots of performance vids, that’s a good sign. Looks like humanisation variation & midi would have to be programmed in. What midi-pad oneShot sampler plays well with it?(IAA automation on adsr)

    No drum-machine apps out there that combine programed variation with live performance on pads? Can Patterning be used with pads?

  • I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or not but the impc does have automated swing/quantization that can be abled or disabled before or after sequencing if I'm not mistaken, and it is specifically designed to trigger one shot drum samples

  • edited April 2018

    Can Patterning be used with pads?

    Nope.

    ... Modstep looks interesting but again overkill. Lots of performance vids, that’s a good sign. Looks like humanisation variation & midi would have to be programmed in.

    What do you mean by humanisation? You could add something like http://artkerns.com/midifiltrpg.html between in your MIDI in and Modstep (or iMPC Pro...). Or maybe via some sort of loop back to affect already recorded stuff.

    If you mean you want to add some amount of random (or not) variation to the drum sounds themselves, you could use something like http://artkerns.com/midilfos.html and point those at any MIDI mappable parameter in Modstep (or iMPC Pro...). That could be applied to level or pitch or

    What midi-pad oneShot sampler plays well with it?(IAA automation on adsr)

    ModStep comes with a pad sampler built in. 16 pads, full ADSR control, etc, over everything. All of which can be controlled via external MIDI controller and recorded to the patterns. https://modstep.net/manual/#The_Sampler Also has beat repeat. It has a filter on the FX send but not a dedicated filter-per-pad. You could set up multiple instances I guess.

    Here's everything that can be MIDI mapped for control from you hardware or another app like midiLFOs. Scroll down to the sampler section. https://modstep.net/manual/#MIDI_MAP If you don't want to switch screens a bunch on something the size of an iPad, you're going to need to embrace the use of an external midi knob box of some sort.

    Here's an overview of the Sampler

  • I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses, but I don't think there's a solution on iOS that fits the description the OP gave us. If I'm reading it right, the humanization/randomization that you can get from Rozeta is what is being sought, but Rozeta is much more of a transport-driven looping sequence type of thing. There's just no good way to get a pad-driven approach using something like Rozeta. Here's one way to potentially solve this: I sample Rozeta's randomization/humanization to pads in Beatmaker 3. Then I set up a CC in MidiFire to generate random notes that launch random pads in BM3. This gives a bit of the type of randomization/humanization that I think the OP is asking for. Then I set up other CCs to move up/down through pages of pads to move between sections of songs--and CCs for moving through banks set up for different songs.

  • edited April 2018

    I’ve been experimenting with iPads/Ableton in a band for awhile now, and if I can give any advice...more than anything... if you don’t already have one, you need a good quality audio interface with at least 4 outputs so you can send the audio to multiple sources. A good audio interface(s) and speakers should be your #1 priority as a band before anything IMO.
    Modstep, BM3 and iMPC pro 2 CAN and CAN’T do what you ask. But it sounds like you want to get a rhythm section with lots of variation that you can tweak live right? Like someone else said, I would go with an AUM setup where you could have several apps/AUs on separate channels. You could control each volume, layer the beats or play one at a time etc. Map AUM to a midi controller with faders and/or knobs (I use LaunchControlXL) so you can adjust it easier live. That should give you a lot of ever changing rhythms to jam with that could sound "live."

    But I agree with this...

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses, but I don't think there's a solution on iOS that fits the description the OP gave us.

    However @lukesleepwalker that potential BM3 setup sounds like the closest to the OP description. Interesting concept. :sunglasses:

  • wimwim
    edited April 2018

    I love BM3, but the very thought of using it live gives makes me shudder. I wouldn't call it a crashy app, but I also wouldn't call it anywhere near stable enough to use live. Jeeze, I get embarrassed just imagining the potential train wreck in front of an audience.

    I wouldn't even attempt half of what the OP wants to do with iOS live. Any live iOS rig needs to be as simple as possible and tested over and over for stability.

    That said ... GrooveRider might be worth looking at. It satisfies much of what is described in the OP, and is one of the most stable apps I've used on iOS. I don't recall a single crash - ever. It's the only app beside AUM that I would trust for live performance.

  • edited April 2018

    @wim said:
    I love BM3, but the very thought of using it live gives makes me shudder. I wouldn't call it a crashy app, but I also wouldn't call it anywhere near stable enough to use live. Jeeze, I get embarrassed just imagining the potential train wreck in front of an audience.

    I wouldn't even attempt half of what the OP wants to do with iOS live. Any live iOS rig needs to be as simple as possible and tested over and over for stability.

    That said ... GrooveRider might be worth looking at. It satisfies much of what is described in the OP, and is one of the most stable apps I've used on iOS. I don't recall a single crash - ever. It's the only app beside AUM that I would trust for live performance.

    I use BM3 in rehearsal every week for several months and haven't had a single crash using it the way I describe above. That's not to say it hasn't crashed on me when I'm constructing my sessions/banks--just that I have never seen a crash using the banks of samples in a live performance rehearsal as described above. In my experience, BM3 crashes usually result from an AU loaded in a bank rather than a sample being triggered via pads. I trigger one-shots only and never touch the transport controls at all either. And of course, I just jinxed myself. :wink:

    But I do agree with the premise that one has to test again and again and again to make sure an iOS rig is stable. And then be wary of updates of apps and iOS until you've tested new versions again and again and again.

    I also will admit that GrooveRider videos have piqued my interest based on my live use case and I need to take a look at whether it would an easier workflow for me and more stable than BM3. If only I had more time...

  • I dunno, maybe the poster is looking for something like Future drummer with live pads? Programmed beats with live control of variation for jamming.
    http://lumbeat.com/news/live-mode-tutorial-future-drummer/

  • edited April 2018

    Sector hosted in AUM might be the drum app you’re looking for you’d just need to load your own samples and hook up a pad controller via AUM midi control. I don’t know how useable the app is live but once tamed it can be pretty good at coming up with variations.

    Actually I just had a look. No midi mapping via AUM as it ain’t AU but you can do that from within Sector...only four triggers as far as I remembe though.

  • edited April 2018

    Thanks guys lots of leads to research here,will feedback..... But yes the main thing is.. is iOS ready for live? I know peeps using it solely as a normal looper on stage. I suppose it’s about making the complicated simple when on stage.

    @syrupCore: “What do you mean by humanisation?”
    ......here are some examples for the humans vs robots vibrational war. I’m not expecting it all, but it should convey the general idea. Every example is basically X by Y. Defining what X or Y is, creates the intended variation.

    a) Shuffle the position of midi notes:
    ----- e.g. vary original looseness of the performance i.e. with normalized random value, multiply the quantisation offset value from the original note hit.

    b) Shift the position of midi notes :
    ----- e.g. vary the swing of the swing i.e. within a 4-bar sinewave, vary swing by an value

    c) Adjust Sample property (recorded automation):
    ----- e.g. perform over a loop to record knob changes to the velocity of a sample. (or ASDR or velocity/gate/pitch etc..)

    c) Adjust Sample property (lfo automation)
    ----- e.g. vary the velocity of a sample. i.e. every eighth of a bar change velocity of note by a value.

    e) Swap Selected Sample/s of a midi note:
    e.g. change the last closed high-hat occasionally to an open high-hat i.e. 10% probability that selected midi note is an open high-hat.

    f) Swap bar to different loop
    -----e.g. change the loop and then return to original loop. i.e. 90% probability that a fill loop is played every 8 bars.

    g) tempo
    ----- e.g. non-linear increase of tempo over song length i.e. increase random value of tempo every bar.

    #
  • Drum perfect pro. Has midi in and live Patten looping. Anyone used this in anger performing?

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