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Comments
There one tricky detail about Gates for me in my live and recording workflows.
You set some volume level as the cut off. Musical signals above that level are passed. Play a really soft note and it might be dropped. That's a really bad thing and can ruin a session.
Noise below that volume never gets out. But If there's a surge in noise it might exceed the gate and flood through. Another really bad event.
In most cases there'e enough room between noise and instrument levels to find a useful setting so a gate is the right tool but...
Brusfri gives a bit more latitude to still pass low volume music and filter higher volume noise so if I have the CPU for this extra benefit I use it as a general practice for my AUM "Guitar Rig" channel strips.
Lately, I've been pushing these strip with some great new FX and will probably get the 4Pockets Gate.
I have the FabFilter Pro-G (Gate) but I have really figured out how to use it correctly. 4Pockets will be
drop dead simple and have fewer bells and whistles.
If anyone has any advice RE: FF's Pro-G I'd appreciate the heads up on it's benefits vs 4Pockets.
It's a silly thing but I love apps that embed the feature in the app name. In this case putting "gate" into aum's search box saves those long scrolling app lists. I could use "FAC" and try to remember that Envolver
has a gate. "Reverb" presents a nice listing of suitable apps to consider. "Stereo" won't locate Haaze 1 or 2
for example but will find some others. Clever iTunes naming schemes can add these generic labels which also probably improve iTunes store searches by generic functions.
That's exactly why I suggest using downward expanders instead of "stupid" noise gates. They're just not made for real-life instruments.
And I'm very surprised that we still have no AUv3 equivalent of Auria's channel strip. For me it's almost like the holy grail of a channel strip that really does the job in most cases.
Does one exist on IOS yet?
We used to say that about FabFilter's FX so maybe it's being built. I have to believe the Auria team is working on something and maybe pulling pieces out for more sales is in the offing. I'd like that Aria Engine sampler that disk streams SFZ''s, SF2's and EXS instruments.
Good point!
The Auria channel strip and sampler, both would be welcome as AUv3.
Re gates and gates cutting off notes, a coupla things or more. They aren’t always the right tool to use. I use them with my live rig but rarely when recording. Live it’s because, it is a convenient way to prevent buzz/hum annoying everyone (including me) when no playing is happening. You need to set your threshold and release time carefully. The gate should set barely above the noise floor. People with squeaky technique sometimes set it slightly higher. Set the release long enough that it won’t cut off the tail. Put the gate at the right place in your chain. For me, that is as the first thing in the chain. Practice with it. If you never use the gate, you are more likely to run into problems than if you use it regularly. One also needs to get used to playing with authority.
I would never use a gate, for example, if I were using my L-5 to do solo guitar stuff. I am likely to use one in an environment (like my garage) where hum is a problem. My strat hums terribly in there. But it is only noticeable when not actually playing. The gate saves me from going crazy listening to my amp hum.
For recording, I rarely use one. It is easy enough edit out the places that should be silence but aren’t.
@rs2000 said: "They're just not made for real-life instruments."
I am scratching my head -- an awful lot of gigging guitarists have one on their pedal board. Is a guitar not a real-life instrument.
I am not saying that a downward expander isn’t a good thing. But sometimes a noise gate is an effective tool.
For lack of a better option, yes. Noise gates implement a stone-old principle and they do what they're advertised to: Hard-cut audio at an adjustable threshold.
If the guitar signal is clean with very litte hum and noise, that's OK but ask a guitarist who isn't that lucky about how easy he finds using a gate to reliably eliminate noise without eliminating the signal.
@McD has already explained the issues.
Yes, sometimes, that's the point. Nothing against an effect with switchable modes and an adjustable ratio (1:1 would be pass-through and 1:inf would be noise gate mode).
iOS developers wouldn't even have to develop the algo, Apple already provides a dynamics processor in the iOS SDK that supports downward expansion and gating.
apeMatrix had included it in the first versions but for some strange reason, Alessandro has removed all controls in later versions and now you can only select from a few presets.
4pockets Noise Gate has a range knob which allow for a much more smooth gate. With my sax, most of my mic noise is removed but my sax breath sound is still captured. I have much better results with this one than with Ableton gate.
I will perhaps have to try their expander too, but I’m already really happy with the result.
Some things to read:
https://www.practical-music-production.com/noise-gate/
https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.soundonsound.com/techniques/using-your-daws-gates-expanders?amp
From SOS article:
« A basic gate needs only threshold, attack and release controls, but in some situations, the output sounds more natural if, instead of completely muting the signal during pauses, the gate merely reduces the level. This requires a range control, which in most instances sets by how many decibels the signal will be attenuated when the gate is closed. Applications for the range control include reducing the level of breath noises without silencing them altogether, or treating sounds where there is a significant amount of spill from other instruments. In the latter case, reducing the amount of spill during pauses often sounds more acceptable than muting it altogether »
@rs2000 and @espiegel123
I’m new to noise gate stuff, never really need it before. With my new sax mic however, it could be useful to remove some mic hiss.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33584/viga-music-tools-intramic-tenor-sax-medley
I bought 4pockets Noise Gate and Expander.
Both works well.
Noise gate seems to preserve attacks and dynamics better, sax playing is very similar with/without noise gate. However, with breathing sax noise (which can be used musically too), gate tend to be opened too much quickly giving some fast and unnatural breathing noises attacks (I write the opposite a few posts above but I was wrong).
On the inverse, expander is much more progressive and transparent on gate opening. But dynamics are altered, especially attacks and my sax playing lose a little bit of life, articulation is a bit tamed.
Here are my settings for both. What should I tweak on expander for more natural attacks and dynamics:
@Janosax : fwiw, on the super-simple gate that I use with my guitar amp, I have found that the release time setting has a big impact. It took a bit of playing around for me to find the setting that allowed the dying of a note to fade nicely.
In your case (microphone hiss) I would really go for tamed brusfri settings. Neither gate nor expander will remove any noise in the actual signal.
@rs2000 both works quite well for removing hiss, despite issues mentioned. I prefer noise gate for now, my sound is more natural, only breath sound suffers a little bit. I also need to test expander more (which is much better for voice BTW). Brusfri is not an option for me because it adds latency and alter the sound. I play live improvisations and added lag is not possible (128 buffers is really the max I can play sax with IEMS), and I want my core sound monitored/recorded intact.
@espiegel123 attack, release and range works well here too. Playing with authority is the key like you said
Not a propos of gates, but it was a friend of mine who years ago pointed out to me that authority is a critically overlooked aspect of playing and that (at least on the guitar) people often work on their dynamics in the opposite way that they should. He convinced me that on the guitar, forceful picking should be the baseline and that you can achieve the illusion of delicacy while picking (with either fingers or plectrum) forcefully. He pointed out that if you play with authority and hit a bad note -- it still has authority, but that if one plays tentatively, the bad note stands out and even the good notes sound weak.
Oh yeah, brusfri live is difficult. When I use it offline, with light noise reduction settings it sounds quite natural. I wonder though why your microphone signal is so noisy, maybe there's something else to fix first?
It’s in the design I suppose as it uses a very special air pressure sensor inside the sax bore, and it’s mostly a zero feedback live mic not truly made for studio. I already use Intramic low noise preamp model which reduce noise. But as this sax mic sounds so good (it really sings incredibly!!!) I use it also for studio recordings. Most of the time my music don’t have silent parts so it’s not a so big issue, but in more ethereal or acapella moments, it’s better to remove background hiss. With condensers mics on the same iRig pro IO, hiss is much lower.
I totally agree with this, this is the also related to playing with energy, intentionality and intensity
I don't totally agree with this, but there is a lot of truth to it. The first guitar album I ever recorded I had so much a problem with playing dynamics from delicate to deliberate (and there was no in-between). It was above all a confidence thing, but I will also say for my ego that the producer was pretty much a rookie too. It's why I always preferred to play live; you know you HAVE to play with authority, so you simply do.