Pro-L2 is a mastering engineer’s wet dream come true!

Pardon the rude title, but never in my wildest dreams would I imagined anything as incredible as this Maximizer. Now, the 32x oversampling DOES eat up CPU, so working with it set at 4x oversampling is fine, and then bring it up to 32x oversampling. So for curiosity’s sake, I decided to see how far I could push Pro-L2 before I heard audible distortion. Using a custom preset, I could make it -4dB RMS before hearing distortion in the original Pro-L. After rebuilding that preset in Pro-L2, setting oversampling to 8x (instead of my 4x), keeping True Peak Limiting on, it could hit up to slightly above -2dB RMS before any real audible distortion. That is really damn loud (albeit with the dynamics completely squashed out, but at least they are transparently squashed out you see).

This means it’ll be guaranteed to be crystal clear at the far more pleasant -9 RMS (which is my usual level for my dance music tracks).

OH, and another thing I noticed in Pro-Q2 is FabFilter was kind enough to allow us to save spectral information from reference tracks! Now I no longer need to hook up a live sidechain to match spectral content. I swear they improved the algorithms for spectral matching adjustments as well as I hear less oddities.

This Auria Pro update is one of the best, and it doesn’t crash on me.

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Comments

  • Hehe, I did not understand one sentence in this post :D

    But i take it, that Pro-L2 is a good thing.

  • So, you are a wizard and you have a magic flute?

    And Auria update has treated you well?

    I saw a demo of 5 AU Model6 in Auria so I am about to reinstall myself....

  • @RUST( i )K said:
    So, you are a wizard and you have a magic flute?

    That’s right, muggle, although I don’t own Jubal Flute and don’t plan to.

    And Auria update has treated you well?

    Yeah, I think so. :P

    I saw a demo of 5 AU Model6 in Auria so I am about to reinstall myself....

    Good luck.

  • @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Pardon the rude title, but never in my wildest dreams would I imagined anything as incredible as this Maximizer. Now, the 32x oversampling DOES eat up CPU, so working with it set at 4x oversampling is fine, and then bring it up to 32x oversampling. So for curiosity’s sake, I decided to see how far I could push Pro-L2 before I heard audible distortion. Using a custom preset, I could make it -4dB RMS before hearing distortion in the original Pro-L. After rebuilding that preset in Pro-L2, setting oversampling to 8x (instead of my 4x), keeping True Peak Limiting on, it could hit up to slightly above -2dB RMS before any real audible distortion. That is really damn loud (albeit with the dynamics completely squashed out, but at least they are transparently squashed out you see).

    This means it’ll be guaranteed to be crystal clear at the far more pleasant -9 RMS (which is my usual level for my dance music tracks).

    OH, and another thing I noticed in Pro-Q2 is FabFilter was kind enough to allow us to save spectral information from reference tracks! Now I no longer need to hook up a live sidechain to match spectral content. I swear they improved the algorithms for spectral matching adjustments as well as I hear less oddities.

    This Auria Pro update is one of the best, and it doesn’t crash on me.

    Ok but the real question is:

    Do you like it?

    :wink:

  • @dvlmusic said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Pardon the rude title, but never in my wildest dreams would I imagined anything as incredible as this Maximizer. Now, the 32x oversampling DOES eat up CPU, so working with it set at 4x oversampling is fine, and then bring it up to 32x oversampling. So for curiosity’s sake, I decided to see how far I could push Pro-L2 before I heard audible distortion. Using a custom preset, I could make it -4dB RMS before hearing distortion in the original Pro-L. After rebuilding that preset in Pro-L2, setting oversampling to 8x (instead of my 4x), keeping True Peak Limiting on, it could hit up to slightly above -2dB RMS before any real audible distortion. That is really damn loud (albeit with the dynamics completely squashed out, but at least they are transparently squashed out you see).

    This means it’ll be guaranteed to be crystal clear at the far more pleasant -9 RMS (which is my usual level for my dance music tracks).

    OH, and another thing I noticed in Pro-Q2 is FabFilter was kind enough to allow us to save spectral information from reference tracks! Now I no longer need to hook up a live sidechain to match spectral content. I swear they improved the algorithms for spectral matching adjustments as well as I hear less oddities.

    This Auria Pro update is one of the best, and it doesn’t crash on me.

    Ok but the real question is:

    Do you like it?

    :wink:

    LOL

    Wet Dream

    He soiled himself so he is upset I guess.

  • One thing to keep in mind is that more oversampling is not always better. I know in Pro-Lv1 I would often intentionally chose only 1x or 2x if I wanted a little bit more of an edge on the song. Sometime the extra oversampling is useful in REALLY preventing overs, but it can also soften things a little bit too if you're using too much.

    The other advice I'd give (not that anyone asked, sorry) is to ignore the names of the different limiting modes in Pro-L. They might say aggressive or whatever, but don't be afraid to try them on songs you wouldn't normally associate with that adjective. I remember Dynamic in Pro-Lv1 was almost doing this weird transient enchancement, and I always thought of it for that aspect, versus just for dynamic music.

  • This is absolutely true! Loving Pro L2. Now, someone could bring Melodyne on board, so I don’t need my Mac anymore...

  • The big question for me: is it easier to use than the original Pro-L?
    Pro-L was sold on the forum as the greatest single plug-in you could possibly have! Ever! And now...it's even more greatest?

  • edited March 2018

    @tja said:
    Hehe, I did not understand one sentence in this post :D

    Our friend JWM is a soldier in the Loudness Wars, and I think he is winning! :D

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @tja said:
    Hehe, I did not understand one sentence in this post :D

    Our friend JWM is a soldier in the Loudness Wars, and I think he is winning! :D

    Try talking to him.

    HE can't hear word you say.

  • edited March 2018

    .

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    The big question for me: is it easier to use than the original Pro-L?
    Pro-L was sold on the forum as the greatest single plug-in you could possibly have! Ever! And now...it's even more greatest?

    Same work flow, if you've used v1 then v2 won't be a huge suprise or anything.

  • edited March 2018

    I just wish i could understand why everything today must be so LOOOOUUUUDDDDD!!
    I mostly have to turn my volume so much down and trough my good headphones i wonder where the dynamics are.
    Is that the modern sound of today?
    It doesn´t breath anywhere or build and flow....it just pumps! :o :)

  • wimwim
    edited March 2018

    @Cib said:
    Is that the modern sound of today?

    yes

  • @dvlmusic said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Pardon the rude title, but never in my wildest dreams would I imagined anything as incredible as this Maximizer. Now, the 32x oversampling DOES eat up CPU, so working with it set at 4x oversampling is fine, and then bring it up to 32x oversampling. So for curiosity’s sake, I decided to see how far I could push Pro-L2 before I heard audible distortion. Using a custom preset, I could make it -4dB RMS before hearing distortion in the original Pro-L. After rebuilding that preset in Pro-L2, setting oversampling to 8x (instead of my 4x), keeping True Peak Limiting on, it could hit up to slightly above -2dB RMS before any real audible distortion. That is really damn loud (albeit with the dynamics completely squashed out, but at least they are transparently squashed out you see).

    This means it’ll be guaranteed to be crystal clear at the far more pleasant -9 RMS (which is my usual level for my dance music tracks).

    OH, and another thing I noticed in Pro-Q2 is FabFilter was kind enough to allow us to save spectral information from reference tracks! Now I no longer need to hook up a live sidechain to match spectral content. I swear they improved the algorithms for spectral matching adjustments as well as I hear less oddities.

    This Auria Pro update is one of the best, and it doesn’t crash on me.

    Ok but the real question is:

    Do you like it?

    :wink:

    :p Duh. Like I said, I’m not going into the loudness wars myself, because I like my tracks to sound pleasing to the ears, but if a client needs it loud, at least I can reluctantly make it louder transparently. :p

  • edited March 2018

    One of the nice things about L2 is that it provides the integrated LUFS measurement - at least on the PC (I admit to never having even seen it on iOS). Makes it easier to achieve the -14.0 LUFS for SoundCloud and most other streaming services. Or to push it way up to get to "CD" levels (those old things).

  • It does have LUFS on iOS - it’s identical to the PC version!

  • @Cib said:
    I just wish i could understand why everything today must be so LOOOOUUUUDDDDD!!
    I mostly have to turn my volume so much down and trough my good headphones i wonder where the dynamics are.
    Is that the modern sound of today?
    It doesn´t breath anywhere or build and flow....it just pumps! :o :)

    With LUFS metering that is thankfully dying. If you set a target of -14 LUFS, which is what Youtube and Spotify use, there is likely to be very little limiting on a track at all, maybe just some of the loudest drum transients. But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

  • @richardyot said:
    But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    >

    Really. Who won?

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    >

    Really. Who won?

    Youtube :)

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    >

    Really. Who won?

    Andrew WK back in 2001 or 2. It’s a shame it went on for 15 years when it was over before it really began. Seriously, if you have Spotify, go back and listen to the first album.

  • edited March 2018

    @richardyot said:

    @Cib said:
    I just wish i could understand why everything today must be so LOOOOUUUUDDDDD!!
    I mostly have to turn my volume so much down and trough my good headphones i wonder where the dynamics are.
    Is that the modern sound of today?
    It doesn´t breath anywhere or build and flow....it just pumps! :o :)

    With LUFS metering that is thankfully dying. If you set a target of -14 LUFS, which is what Youtube and Spotify use, there is likely to be very little limiting on a track at all, maybe just some of the loudest drum transients. But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    And i wonder why musicians still even care if a music app sounds like a real Moog or like a compressed digital Bontempi :) The folks today don´t care about it anyway while they streaming the music and think it all should be free like they can breath air.
    But when i was younger i was the same until i heard the first time trough really good headphones and proper amp.
    It was like going 2D to a 3D sound. I guess 90% of the people which like to hear music never ever experienced that.
    Maybe music will be something people will making for themselves only even more in the future.
    But then i might have no clue how to proper mix and master anyway since i mostly don´t use any of these tools.
    And i didn´t find f.e. that the Fab-Filter plug-ins give me anything my DAW not has for free.
    When i were on iPad i also much prefered the Audio Mastering app.
    Maybe it´s why i don´t do much mixing/mastering since i play one track over the other and tweak each track/sound until i´m happy and it runs well with the other. I do very few things after a track is done since it can totally change it´s dynamic or flavor.

  • Still no 2.18 UK Update, this is killing me

  • @Cib said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Cib said:
    I just wish i could understand why everything today must be so LOOOOUUUUDDDDD!!
    I mostly have to turn my volume so much down and trough my good headphones i wonder where the dynamics are.
    Is that the modern sound of today?
    It doesn´t breath anywhere or build and flow....it just pumps! :o :)

    With LUFS metering that is thankfully dying. If you set a target of -14 LUFS, which is what Youtube and Spotify use, there is likely to be very little limiting on a track at all, maybe just some of the loudest drum transients. But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    And i wonder why musicians still even care if a music app sounds like a real Moog or like a compressed digital Bontempi :) The folks today don´t care about it anyway while they streaming the music and think it all should be free like they can breath air.
    But when i was younger i was the same until i heard the first time trough really good headphones and proper amp.
    It was like going 2D to a 3D sound. I guess 90% of the people which like to hear music never ever experienced that.
    Maybe music will be something people will making for themselves only even more in the future.
    But then i might have no clue how to proper mix and master anyway since i mostly don´t use any of these tools.
    And i didn´t find f.e. that the Fab-Filter plug-ins give me anything my DAW not has for free.
    When i were on iPad i also much prefered the Audio Mastering app.
    Maybe it´s why i don´t do much mixing/mastering since i play one track over the other and tweak each track/sound until i´m happy and it runs well with the other. I do very few things after a track is done since it can totally change it´s dynamic or flavor.

    I'm not sure what you're saying to be honest - you seem to be saying that Spotify is not capable of delivering good quality? I personally think that it is, in fact you can select several tiers of streaming quality in Spotify and the highest tier is equivalent to 320kbs which is impossible for humans to differentiate from CD quality. What's more, since streaming essentially makes really loud and disorted masters sound quieter with their adoption of sensible loudness targets, music on Spotify is likely to sound way better and more dynamic than your average CD.

    But overall sound quality in music is way higher now than it used to be in the past. The sound quality of an iPhone streaming 320kbs with a decent pair of headphones for example is outstanding, way better than the average CD player or record player 20-30 years ago.

    When it comes to the actual practice of mastering (in the second part of your post) I personally think that the main purpose of a master is to deliver a desired target loudness - the extreme compression etc is completely unnecessary IMO, so the main thing a mastering limiter should do is to be able to deliver the target loudness without distortion, and that's something Pro-L does really well.

    Anyway, this is not to start a bun fight - merely an exchange of opinions. Peace B)

  • @richardyot said:

    @Cib said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Cib said:
    I just wish i could understand why everything today must be so LOOOOUUUUDDDDD!!
    I mostly have to turn my volume so much down and trough my good headphones i wonder where the dynamics are.
    Is that the modern sound of today?
    It doesn´t breath anywhere or build and flow....it just pumps! :o :)

    With LUFS metering that is thankfully dying. If you set a target of -14 LUFS, which is what Youtube and Spotify use, there is likely to be very little limiting on a track at all, maybe just some of the loudest drum transients. But thanks to streaming the loudness wars are over.

    And i wonder why musicians still even care if a music app sounds like a real Moog or like a compressed digital Bontempi :) The folks today don´t care about it anyway while they streaming the music and think it all should be free like they can breath air.
    But when i was younger i was the same until i heard the first time trough really good headphones and proper amp.
    It was like going 2D to a 3D sound. I guess 90% of the people which like to hear music never ever experienced that.
    Maybe music will be something people will making for themselves only even more in the future.
    But then i might have no clue how to proper mix and master anyway since i mostly don´t use any of these tools.
    And i didn´t find f.e. that the Fab-Filter plug-ins give me anything my DAW not has for free.
    When i were on iPad i also much prefered the Audio Mastering app.
    Maybe it´s why i don´t do much mixing/mastering since i play one track over the other and tweak each track/sound until i´m happy and it runs well with the other. I do very few things after a track is done since it can totally change it´s dynamic or flavor.

    I'm not sure what you're saying to be honest - you seem to be saying that Spotify is not capable of delivering good quality? I personally think that it is, in fact you can select several tiers of streaming quality in Spotify and the highest tier is equivalent to 320kbs which is impossible for humans to differentiate from CD quality. What's more, since streaming essentially makes really loud and disorted masters sound quieter with their adoption of sensible loudness targets, music on Spotify is likely to sound way better and more dynamic than your average CD.

    But overall sound quality in music is way higher now than it used to be in the past. The sound quality of an iPhone streaming 320kbs with a decent pair of headphones for example is outstanding, way better than the average CD player or record player 20-30 years ago.

    When it comes to the actual practice of mastering (in the second part of your post) I personally think that the main purpose of a master is to deliver a desired target loudness - the extreme compression etc is completely unnecessary IMO, so the main thing a mastering limiter should do is to be able to deliver the target loudness without distortion, and that's something Pro-L does really well.

    Anyway, this is not to start a bun fight - merely an exchange of opinions. Peace B)

    Ja ja, like i said i have no clue about mixing/mastering anyway (which you might hear in my tracks).
    I mean the kids think this BEATZ headphones are the greatest but they are worth than my old 10 dollar cheaps.
    Of course streaming is much better than the first MP3 players and when i compared my beloved 90´s trance sounds to modern electronic sounds there is a huge step up today.
    But i find you really can just enjoy it with the right tools. Hearing it in the car trough the radio sounds all flat as it sounds terrible trough crappy headphones etc.
    I mean i think mastering is for to make it broadcast ready so that it should sound great with close to everything the folks will listen trough.
    I experienced that it´s very hard for me to make these things after the creative process. And i often feel no need for these tools anyway if the synth f.e. i use offer straight away a very dynamic sound (and yes, i like using compressors and limiters which are included in synths often).
    Of course there is a reason there are pro mastering people out there. So in my case a plug-in which cost more than my DAW doesn´t help me the slightest. And if i would like to be my tracks pro mastered i might give it anyway as raw as possible in their hands.
    I lost the line here now.....sorry.
    I´m just interested in these things and want to learn more about it.

  • @Cib said:
    I´m just interested in these things and want to learn more about it.

    One thing that was particularly interesting about this video which was posted in another thread is what happens to a beat-heavy track when the target loudness is set to -14 LUFS: the limiter is doing absolutely nothing, in fact to demo the limiting artifacts the narrator has to target the loudness for CD-type mastering (see at 4.15 onwards):

    So basically this is really good news, and makes the job of mastering considerably easier. Once you have a mix you are happy with, simply use the limiter to target -14 LUFS in the loudest sections of the track (you can even go over a little) and all your dynamics and mix decisions will be preserved as you intended them, and the limiter will be doing very little work so there won't be any degradation in quality either. If you apply this process to a collection of tracks they will all have consistent loudness and be ready for streaming platforms. You don't really need anything else from mastering.

  • And there is no other limiter that could target -14 LUFS on iOS?

  • So is that the same thing i can do with the Logic LUFS metering tool? A serious question. I can be creative and can mostly program all my synth now proper but mixing/mastering might be my biggest gap here.
    Indeed i never heard from the differences of LUFS about different countries and streaming offers until i googles it now. So i already learned something new here. Thank´s folks :)

  • @tja said:
    And there is no other limiter that could target -14 LUFS on iOS?

    Klevgrand Grand Finale can do it as well. I don't own it so can't compare it to Pro L, but I imagine it's comparable in quality.

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