BM3 audio recording

Hi all.

I am using BM3 with much success except one minor problem.

When I record audio from my interface inputs I am getting a random glitch occuring in the recorded tracks. This is not recording samples but to audio clips on an audio track.

I am wondering if anyone else has noticed this?

I can post an example if needed.

This is just simple audio recording like one would do in a standard DAW.

The glitch is random , it won’t happen on every audio track I record.

Comments

  • I have that problem (on top of many many others). I've checked the sample, nothing visible to trim or fade yet always clicking at the loop point. Rendering out and importing the same loop and there's no problem however... until it crashes later on.

  • @BroCoast Some general tips I can offer are: 1.use airplane mode 2. try to work at the sample rate native to your device. My Air2 is 44.1k and I set my USB audio interface to the same. I think newer iPhones are 48k, but I have no idea about newer iPads. 3. Use the largest audio buffer you can. It has to be small if you are playing/recording live, but for sequenced stuff try setting it higher if the audio glitches. 4. You can lighten the load on your device by rendering to audio any midi tracks. Even render everything to a temp stereo file that you can play back while you record if you have to.

    @LucidMusicInc I have no idea about this one. Seems BM3 specific to me. Is it only when you record the loop in BM3, or can any loop potentially do this?

  • @CracklePot said:
    @BroCoast Some general tips I can offer are: 1.use airplane mode 2. try to work at the sample rate native to your device. My Air2 is 44.1k and I set my USB audio interface to the same. I think newer iPhones are 48k, but I have no idea about newer iPads. 3. Use the largest audio buffer you can. It has to be small if you are playing/recording live, but for sequenced stuff try setting it higher if the audio glitches. 4. You can lighten the load on your device by rendering to audio any midi tracks. Even render everything to a temp stereo file that you can play back while you record if you have to.

    @LucidMusicInc I have no idea about this one. Seems BM3 specific to me. Is it only when you record the loop in BM3, or can any loop potentially do this?

    It's the loop. Looking at the sample, I see nothing wrong with it but it clips. Recording one shots is fine.

  • @CracklePot said:
    My Air2 is 44.1k and I set my USB audio interface to the same.

    This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, it is the audio chipset that supports 44.1, not the entire iPad, when you use a USB audio interface you bypass the iPads chipset entirely, so you can set it to whatever the USB interface supports.

  • @Samplemunch said:

    @CracklePot said:
    My Air2 is 44.1k and I set my USB audio interface to the same.

    This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, it is the audio chipset that supports 44.1, not the entire iPad, when you use a USB audio interface you bypass the iPads chipset entirely, so you can set it to whatever the USB interface supports.

    All I know is that I had trouble using 48k with an iPad before, while my Android phone only works reliably at 48k, not 44.1 k. I am not saying why it happens, just that it does and how I got around it.

  • edited February 26

    it's complicated - depends on chipset AND software, which includes the OS, default mode, specific implementations etc.
    On topic: just recorded 2 minutes in BM3 glitch free, running Safari in background on an Air-2, so really not much load (iConnectAudio4+).
    @BroCoast no details of your environment may be helpful.

  • I am using a Steinberg UR22 mk2 for the interface.

    I changed settings to 32bit & 48khz and could not reproduce the glitch???

    For some reason that seemed to work.

  • edited February 27

    Still glitching. CPU load, audio settings etc. make no difference..

    Here is an example I looped a few times.

    Boom boom tsch... glitch

  • @BroCoast said:
    Still glitching. CPU load, audio settings etc. make no difference..

    Here is an example I looped a few times.

    Boom boom tsch... glitch

    I am someone who likes to use the breaths between hats run through a compressor for sound so I find the sound pleasing......

  • @RUST( i )K said:

    @BroCoast said:
    Still glitching. CPU load, audio settings etc. make no difference..

    Here is an example I looped a few times.

    Boom boom tsch... glitch

    I am someone who likes to use the breaths between hats run through a compressor for sound so I find the sound pleasing......

    If you listen with headphones or monitors you will hear what the issue is. It's not something you would want to occur or at all pleasing.

    Headphones are probably best as something happens with the stereo field when it glitches.

  • we don't know the original (sample) sound - but there is nothing called 'glitching' at least.
    Could it be the 3rd sound is layered and you simply overshoot the channel ?

  • @Telefunky said:
    we don't know the original (sample) sound - but there is nothing called 'glitching' at least.
    Could it be the 3rd sound is layered and you simply overshoot the channel ?

    I don't know how it is not clear??? This was from a single piece of audio I recorded with 1 mic on my drums.

    On that kick hit (4th hit) you can clearly hear it go stereo for a moment. Nothing is layered. I guess I'll try and reproduce it again.

  • yes, it wasn't clear at all - you wrote:
    'This is not recording samples but to audio clips on an audio track.' tells about the destination, but not what or how you recorded ;)
    Now that conditions are known: a software error sounds different.

    The sound is in fact distorted, but that can have various reasons, starting with the kick pulse itself when hitting the microphone membrane.
    You mention it goes stereo, which is physically not possible with a single microphone.
    So obviously you use some kind of stereo mic.
    Afaik there are no (affordable) stereo mics that can handle a kick properly.
    You may also consider that a low frequency room echo hits the membrane slightly offset in time. You can't hear it because the ear isn't directionally sensitive to signals in that frequency range.
    Imho the input is the most suspect.

  • @Telefunky said:
    yes, it wasn't clear at all - you wrote:
    'This is not recording samples but to audio clips on an audio track.' tells about the destination, but not what or how you recorded ;)
    Now that conditions are known: a software error sounds different.

    The sound is in fact distorted, but that can have various reasons, starting with the kick pulse itself when hitting the microphone membrane.
    You mention it goes stereo, which is physically not possible with a single microphone.
    So obviously you use some kind of stereo mic.
    Afaik there are no (affordable) stereo mics that can handle a kick properly.
    You may also consider that a low frequency room echo hits the membrane slightly offset in time. You can't hear it because the ear isn't directionally sensitive to signals in that frequency range.
    Imho the input is the most suspect.

    Sorry Telefunky you are way off!

    This is nothing to do with my mic (mono ribbon 4038) which was not even close to the drums. The distortion is the Saturator in BM3. The glitch occurs recording direct synth, voice, guitar... anything. It is totally random, nothing to do with the source or clip edges etc.

    The problem is with BM3 & how it processes audio tracks. Like I said I will make another example (not drums)

    Thank you for listening though.

  • wimwim
    edited March 1

    My suggestion is to try the exact same recording setup with a different host, like Cubasis or AUM to see if there is a difference. I'm with @Telefunky in thinking it's very likely this has to do with the path into BM3 more than BM3 itself.

    Your comment about "going stereo" makes me think this could have to do with phasing issues. For instance, it sounds very likely that you could be getting a very fast reflection off of the walls of your room. If that reflection is close enough to the original and offset just a bit in time, it can cancel out part of the sound wave you've recorded. That's just one of the possibilities.

  • @wim said:
    My suggestion is to try the exact same recording setup with a different host, like Cubasis or AUM to see if there is a difference. I'm with @Telefunky in thinking it's very likely this has to do with the path into BM3 more than BM3 itself.

    Your comment about "going stereo" makes me think this could have to do with phasing issues. For instance, it sounds very likely that you could be getting a very fast reflection off of the walls of your room. If that reflection is close enough to the original and offset just a bit in time, it can cancel out part of the sound wave you've recorded. That's just one of the possibilities.

    I have no issue with Cubasis, this is BM3 specific and I am quite sure it's to do with how it processes audio tracks. Like I said it occurs without microphones being involved. Forget the "engineer" side of things as I am quite competent.

    This issue is BM3 specific. I made this topic to see if others are experiencing this with audio tracks. I'll recreate it with a synth.

  • edited March 1

    @BroCoast said:

    @Telefunky said:
    yes, it wasn't clear at all - you wrote:
    'This is not recording samples but to audio clips on an audio track.' tells about the destination, but not what or how you recorded ;)
    Now that conditions are known: a software error sounds different.

    The sound is in fact distorted, but that can have various reasons, starting with the kick pulse itself when hitting the microphone membrane.
    You mention it goes stereo, which is physically not possible with a single microphone.
    So obviously you use some kind of stereo mic.
    Afaik there are no (affordable) stereo mics that can handle a kick properly.
    You may also consider that a low frequency room echo hits the membrane slightly offset in time. You can't hear it because the ear isn't directionally sensitive to signals in that frequency range.
    Imho the input is the most suspect.

    Sorry Telefunky you are way off!

    This is nothing to do with my mic (mono ribbon 4038) which was not even close to the drums. The distortion is the Saturator in BM3. The glitch occurs recording direct synth, voice, guitar... anything. It is totally random, nothing to do with the source or clip edges etc.

    I'm glad I am... and pleased to read you use such a nice microphone ;)
    As mentioned there can be numerous sources and the one you mention is a valid option, too.
    It's just difficult to track down from remote as one starts with the most obvious according to personal experience and imagined scenario.
    I don't know each recording option or setup in BM3 - and in this case assumed a plain input path without processing.
    As far as I'm concerned I don't need any more examples - I simply trust in your words and will check according to your hints.
    Tbh I'm still trying to figure out a workflow with this app and I'm not exactly amused about what I experienced so far.
    Some things are really nice, some are plain stupid - the IOS Syndrome o:)

  • @BroCoast I know how even minute audio anomalies can drive us producers mad, hope it gets straightened out.

    But I will say this: Loved hearing the sound of your recording: a drum kit playing in a room with a mic recording it. I love ultra clean samples and multi tracked drums as much as anyone but the old school vibe of mono drums is a great noise.

  • wimwim
    edited March 2

    @BroCoast said:

    @wim said:
    My suggestion is to try the exact same recording setup with a different host, like Cubasis or AUM to see if there is a difference. I'm with @Telefunky in thinking it's very likely this has to do with the path into BM3 more than BM3 itself.

    Your comment about "going stereo" makes me think this could have to do with phasing issues. For instance, it sounds very likely that you could be getting a very fast reflection off of the walls of your room. If that reflection is close enough to the original and offset just a bit in time, it can cancel out part of the sound wave you've recorded. That's just one of the possibilities.

    I have no issue with Cubasis, this is BM3 specific and I am quite sure it's to do with how it processes audio tracks. Like I said it occurs without microphones being involved. Forget the "engineer" side of things as I am quite competent.

    This issue is BM3 specific. I made this topic to see if others are experiencing this with audio tracks. I'll recreate it with a synth.

    I have nothing to add in that case. I don’t notice any problems recording with BM3 myself but maybe I just can’t hear it.

    The Intua forum might be more effective for this issue if you haven’t already taken it up there.

  • @Telefunky said:

    @BroCoast said:

    @Telefunky said:
    yes, it wasn't clear at all - you wrote:
    'This is not recording samples but to audio clips on an audio track.' tells about the destination, but not what or how you recorded ;)
    Now that conditions are known: a software error sounds different.

    The sound is in fact distorted, but that can have various reasons, starting with the kick pulse itself when hitting the microphone membrane.
    You mention it goes stereo, which is physically not possible with a single microphone.
    So obviously you use some kind of stereo mic.
    Afaik there are no (affordable) stereo mics that can handle a kick properly.
    You may also consider that a low frequency room echo hits the membrane slightly offset in time. You can't hear it because the ear isn't directionally sensitive to signals in that frequency range.
    Imho the input is the most suspect.

    Sorry Telefunky you are way off!

    This is nothing to do with my mic (mono ribbon 4038) which was not even close to the drums. The distortion is the Saturator in BM3. The glitch occurs recording direct synth, voice, guitar... anything. It is totally random, nothing to do with the source or clip edges etc.

    I'm glad I am... and pleased to read you use such a nice microphone ;)
    As mentioned there can be numerous sources and the one you mention is a valid option, too.
    It's just difficult to track down from remote as one starts with the most obvious according to personal experience and imagined scenario.
    I don't know each recording option or setup in BM3 - and in this case assumed a plain input path without processing.
    As far as I'm concerned I don't need any more examples - I simply trust in your words and will check according to your hints.
    Tbh I'm still trying to figure out a workflow with this app and I'm not exactly amused about what I experienced so far.
    Some things are really nice, some are plain stupid - the IOS Syndrome o:)

    I really love BM3, I've learnt it enough that it's pretty much an Ableton replacement for me. I'm going to try some other interfaces and see how that goes but there are 2 major things that annoy me in this app:

    The way it prints the audio post app processing (post fader & post FX)
    The very stupid monitoring (bug?) that has the potential to blow monitors or damage hearing with headphones. Basically it doubles or triple monitors the source...

    I will try and contact Intua about this stuff...

    Here is a snapshot of what happens to the audio with this glitch on synth audio:

  • well caught event...
    Does '...The way it prints the audio post app processing (post fader & post FX)' mean this flaw hits the app's output or is it already in the raw input recorded ?
    Which might indeed be related to the interface, while an output glitch more likely points to a bug.

  • So I tried with a Motu 16a and a Behringer UCA202 and get the same glitch.

    It only occurs in Song Mode. I have been unable to reproduce the glitch recording to scenes.

    It kind of makes more sense to work in scene mode then paste into song mode anyway.

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