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Quincy Jones Doesn’t Pull Any Punches

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Comments

  • @Icepulse said:
    And if I ever “develop my listening skills” to the point where I prefer listening to Jaco Pastorius sliding and pulling around some somnambulistic arrangement, over the f’ing Misfits, please seek me out and kill me.

    No reason one can’t love both. For the record though, even though I like Jaco, I’m not a fan of Joni Mitchell and so really haven’t listened much to what he didn’t with her. Great playing on the song posted in this thread, however I can’t say I dug the song. And I do love the Misfits, who are from the town only 15 minutes from here. Sometimes misfits is just what you need while driving!

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @Icepulse said:
    And if I ever “develop my listening skills” to the point where I prefer listening to Jaco Pastorius sliding and pulling around some somnambulistic arrangement, over the f’ing Misfits, please seek me out and kill me.

    No reason one can’t love both. For the record though, even though I like Jaco, I’m not a fan of Joni Mitchell and so really haven’t listened much to what he didn’t with her. Great playing on the song posted in this thread, however I can’t say I dug the song. And I do love the Misfits, who are from the town only 15 minutes from here. Sometimes misfits is just what you need while driving!

  • @Mayo said:
    No wonder Trump was his mate.
    They seem to share the same narcissism / arrogance, and total disrespect for anyone outside of their "class".
    Seeing the whole music world through the prism of virtuoso jazz players (vomit)

    Makes me want to start a discordant, out of time, sloppy iPad punk band
    Total dick.

    +1 I couldn't help feel the same thing about him.

  • Well, the bad tempered old curmudgeon has inspired RTM, and as a result a tongue-in-cheek song about QJ May make it onto the next album.

    No doubt he’d loathe what lowly creatures like us do, but that too is a source of inspiration.

  • Tis best left to the elites.

  • edited February 2018

    @AudioGus said:
    Tis best left to the elites.

    >

    That, AudioGus, is what QJ seems to be saying, completely ignoring how many people, commercially successful or not, who have been empowered to make music without decades of practise. Okay, it may not be virtuoso, but quite a lot of it isn’t bad, and some sounds brilliant.

    In the classical past, only an elite got to make music. Musicians trained for years, and a tiny handful of people got to compose music. The superstars of the day. Even when electricity and technology started the revolution, making music that sounded professional often required instruments costing thousands of pounds, and therefore beyond the reach of many.

    Today, we all have soft synths, on IOS and/or desktop, which sound as good as the ‘prog gods’ of the past. We all have access to very realistic sounding sampled instruments, and from Auria Pro to Logic Pro X (other DAW’s are available) virtual mixing desks.

    But Quincy evidently thinks all of that is crap. Oh dear...

  • Brian Eno.

    End of conversation. Quincy should pack it up, grab his metal detector and big shorts, and just fade.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    >

    At the risk of seeming like someone from the Bureau of Obvious, that is a seriously good looking woman.

    I hadn't noticed; I was too busy observing how out-of-date her cable-knit rainbow sweater was.

  • @Zen210507 said:
    In the classical past, only an elite got to make music. Musicians trained for years, and a tiny handful of people got to compose music.

    In 19th and early 20th century homes, even with families of modest means, it was pretty common to have a piano in the house. When people wanted to enjoy music, someone had to sit down and actually play! Most women were encouraged to take lessons.

  • @Icepulse said:

    I don’t have to develop them very far to realize that the lion’s share of your stuff is reliant on percussive loops. Very nice stuff, to be sure... but as a guitarist, you’re inclined to perform melodic soloing over basic drum loops.

    You're totally correct. I like to blow and am too lazy to compose anything that develops on an ipad. When I was a young man I studied composition and arranging. I have tapes somewhere in a box in my attic of performances of my big band jazz, orchestral and chamber pieces, etc. But these days I just like to blow.

    Also I'm kind of bored with guitar after four decades. I hardly play it at all anymore. I am now learning to sing ragas and to play them on the dilruba. Which again, is all about blowing over a looped bass (the tanpura).

  • @Icepulse said:
    In 19th and early 20th century homes, even with families of modest means, it was pretty common to have a piano in the house. When people wanted to enjoy music, someone had to sit down and actually play!

    >

    Playing the popular songs of the day, or for the more accomplished, classical pieces, both forms written by professionals.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    In the classical past, only an elite got to make music.

    Not even close to reality, my friend.

  • All the Quincy Jones shit-talkers remind me of someone...
    Quincy Jones. ;)

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    In the classical past, only an elite got to make music.

    Not even close to reality, my friend.

    >

    Okay, only an elite got to make music that anyone heard. Not so different from today, I suppose. ;)

  • @telecharge said:
    I don't wanna be startin' somethin', but is racism in Ireland as prevalent as Quincy Jones remembers?

    I read that as, "Oh damn, I better say something nice about Bono now". :D

  • @Icepulse said:
    And if I ever “develop my listening skills” to the point where I prefer listening to Jaco Pastorius sliding and pulling around some somnambulistic arrangement, over the f’ing Misfits, please seek me out and kill me.

    Ha! I'm generally the same with regard to shredding of any sort. Give me the Young Marble Giants over Rush any day. Like someone else said, simple music can absolutely be transcendent (even Kind of Blue is relatively simple music) but that doesn't necessarily detract from enjoying other things in music—even music that doesn't move you. To piggy back on your security experience... I can look at a painting that does absolutely nothing for me but still get lost in admiration for brush work or color choices or whatever. Or in other words: art/emotion and the ability to convey it reigns supreme for most of us but there's nothing inherently wrong with appreciating craftsmanship alone. And appreciation of craft comes generally from developing 'listening skills' or art appreciation skills or whatever. I really can't listen to Prog but I can down with why people like it.

    Movies are an even better example (for me anyway) because it's such an interdisciplinary medium. I can think of plenty of movies that I didn't like on the whole but where I love (or can at least appreciate) the cinematography or blocking or editing or foley or lighting or score or FX...; the details, the craft part of making movies. I reckon all of Q's comments are related to craft, not art.

    Anyway, I still take your point. I reckon, even given all that he knows now, if he could be transported to 1977 to see one show, he'd probably pick something like Weather Report instead of Television, The Ramones or Kraftwerk. Blasphemy.

  • edited February 2018

    @greengrocer said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Also, another context for an 85 year old black musician: huge parts of the British Invasion involved ripping off black American music/musicians.

    >

    The Beatles, always credited their black influences, as did the Stones. Unlike most American acts at the time.

    It could be argued that JPG&R forced America to acknowledge the great music being made by black musicians. Yes, they played some of those songs themselves, but there was no ripping-off, the writers of those songs got paid royalties, a lot!

    +1

    All music has its roots in something that’s gone before, or our collective unconscious. Styles evolve, and I have admiration for bands that develop things further.

    Interesting point. But let's not forget the the whole electronic ambient/ noise stuff was and still is for the larger part a white thing that was/ is still not rooted in (very) old traditions. It's really something young. And although you can say Ambient made in somehow to the mainstream that certainly doesn't count for Noise.

    btw For punk rock in the 70s, 80s, all black bands were really an exception and Rap (around the same time) was initially a huge exclusive black. As soon as you see both things became mainstream it's picked up by everybody (black/white/ yellow and purple) :)

    Sure, most punk rock of the 70s and 80s was made by white bands but what were they doing? Shedding all of the riffage and excess of 70s and 80s white rock and getting back to the roots of rock and roll. Which was made by black musicians. Just saying! Also, the best of it came from Chocolate City. ;)

    The rap bit sort of makes the 'frustration' point instead of contradicting it. Rap first went "mainstream" (meaning, started to make shit tons of money) with whom? The Beastie Boys. PE/Queens groups, Dre-related stuff, etc grew it through the 90s (again, just talking commercially here) but it really reached it's current constant-top-of-the-charts plateau with who? Eminem.

    That's not take away from the talent of the Beasties or Enimem. They were also never coy with who their influences were. But still.

  • @syrupcore Forget Quincy Jones. That dude needs to interview you. B)

  • Just to touch on how stuff comes back around; a lot of current producers in hip hop that are touted as “innovative” or “forward-thinking” are simply going places, rhythmically, that we’re explored back in the 90’s and aughts by groups like Mouse On Mars, Manitoba, Squarepusher, etc. that stuff was considered “weird” by mainstream (and even underground) hip hop listeners, back then. But when Kanye repackages it, 15 years later, it’s “groundbreaking”.

  • @Icepulse said:
    Just to touch on how stuff comes back around; a lot of current producers in hip hop that are touted as “innovative” or “forward-thinking” are simply going places, rhythmically, that we’re explored back in the 90’s and aughts by groups like Mouse On Mars, Manitoba, Squarepusher, etc. that stuff was considered “weird” by mainstream (and even underground) hip hop listeners, back then. But when Kanye repackages it, 15 years later, it’s “groundbreaking”.

    You kinda sound like QJ here. :)

  • @CracklePot said:
    @syrupcore Forget Quincy Jones. That dude needs to interview you. B)

    David Marchese: "So, Will, what's it like to spend your work day ignoring your job and blabbering on Internet forums?"

    Syrupcore: ...blabber blabber blabber...

    David Marchese: "Uh, thanks for your time."

  • @syrupcore said:

    @Icepulse said:
    Just to touch on how stuff comes back around; a lot of current producers in hip hop that are touted as “innovative” or “forward-thinking” are simply going places, rhythmically, that we’re explored back in the 90’s and aughts by groups like Mouse On Mars, Manitoba, Squarepusher, etc. that stuff was considered “weird” by mainstream (and even underground) hip hop listeners, back then. But when Kanye repackages it, 15 years later, it’s “groundbreaking”.

    You kinda sound like QJ here. :)

    Just an observation about how everyone borrows from everyone else, and how there’s nothing new under the sun.

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Mayo said:
    No wonder Trump was his mate.
    They seem to share the same narcissism / arrogance, and total disrespect for anyone outside of their "class".
    Seeing the whole music world through the prism of virtuoso jazz players (vomit)

    Makes me want to start a discordant, out of time, sloppy iPad punk band
    Total dick.

    People who have put in the work to become highly accomplished in a challenging field have the right to be less than impressed with novices. It's like a top NBA player not taking a YMCA league player seriously. Why would he? Any sophisticated musician is going to be bored by a 4-bar loop that never develops. Have some respect for people who have developed their talent to the max.

    Absolutely. Which is not to say that naive simplicity can’t be transcendant: “She Loves You,” “Blitzkreig Bop,” “Bodak Yellow.” It’s also OK to say discerning ears want more.

    Sure, simple music can be transcendent. I'm sure Q would agree with that. And that it's absolutely okay to like whatever you like and not like whatever you don't like.

    I'm suggesting that people with highly developed skills perhaps have more standing to criticize novices than the other way around. The punk rocker criticizing the jazz giant is like a YMCA league player telling Lebron how to run a pick and roll.

    Lebron could probably learn a little something about playing off the ball from a YMCA guy, though.

  • edited February 2018

    @syrupcore said:

    @greengrocer said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Also, another context for an 85 year old black musician: huge parts of the British Invasion involved ripping off black American music/musicians.

    >

    The Beatles, always credited their black influences, as did the Stones. Unlike most American acts at the time.

    It could be argued that JPG&R forced America to acknowledge the great music being made by black musicians. Yes, they played some of those songs themselves, but there was no ripping-off, the writers of those songs got paid royalties, a lot!

    +1

    All music has its roots in something that’s gone before, or our collective unconscious. Styles evolve, and I have admiration for bands that develop things further.

    Interesting point. But let's not forget the the whole electronic ambient/ noise stuff was and still is for the larger part a white thing that was/ is still not rooted in (very) old traditions. It's really something young. And although you can say Ambient made in somehow to the mainstream that certainly doesn't count for Noise.

    btw For punk rock in the 70s, 80s, all black bands were really an exception and Rap (around the same time) was initially a huge exclusive black. As soon as you see both things became mainstream it's picked up by everybody (black/white/ yellow and purple) :)

    Sure, most punk rock of the 70s and 80s was made by white bands but what were they doing? Shedding all of the riffage and excess of 70s and 80s white rock and getting back to the roots of rock and roll. Which was made by black musicians. Just saying! Also, the best of it came from Chocolate City. ;)

    The rap bit sort of makes the 'frustration' point instead of contradicting it. Rap first went "mainstream" (meaning, started to make shit tons of money) with whom? The Beastie Boys. PE/Queens groups, Dre-related stuff, etc grew it through the 90s (again, just talking commercially here) but it really reached it's current constant-top-of-the-charts plateau with who? Eminem.

    That's not take away from the talent of the Beasties or Enimem. They were also never coy with who their influences were. But still.

    You probably missed my point. My example about punk and rap were meant als examples of typical white and black things that started around the same time underground in different groups (white middle/ upperclass and black ghetto). As things went mainstream they were not anymore exclusive to those social groups.

    btw The punk movement was questioning and attacking authority, the rap movement stems more from the tradition of Martin Luther King and was in the first place one of how can we make our situation better and do it the best way we can. Hence critique on local situations like drugs abuse, etc. It was was quite a few years later that bands like Public Enemy came to life with there rage against anything white (clearly influenced by the punk nti-authoritarianism) and even later you get the whole gangsta movement that was glorifying crime which you again could even see as influenced by the same anti-establisment stance punk took. And yes except chords feelings do also matter a lot in music.

  • @Icepulse said:

    @kobamoto said:

    you are still my favorite on the op-1, I wish you would make more videos though

    Thanks, Koba. It’s in for repairs, so I’m focused on the MPC for now.

    what broke on the op?

    the mpcl is monster I love that thing

  • @kobamoto said:

    @Icepulse said:

    @kobamoto said:

    you are still my favorite on the op-1, I wish you would make more videos though

    Thanks, Koba. It’s in for repairs, so I’m focused on the MPC for now.

    what broke on the op?

    the mpcl is monster I love that thing

    The UI board needed replacing, and since the thing is 5 yrs old, I took the opportunity and had the battery replaced.

  • @greengrocer said:

    It was was quite a few years later that bands like Public Enemy came to life with there rage against anything white (clearly influenced by the punk nti-authoritarianism) and even later you get the whole gangsta movement that was glorifying crime which you again could even see as influenced by the same anti-establisment stance punk took.
    >

    The stupidity of anyone raging against people purely based on skin colour seems to have bypassed Public Enemy and co. It’s a million miles from what MLK preached. Hatred only breeds more hatred.

    Not sure your punk influence argument stands up, either. Sure, they challenged corrupted authority and pointless tradition, but did not glorify crime, drugs, or violence against women. So if that is really where Gangstas got thier ideas, then they misunderstood.

  • edited February 2018

    @Zen210507 said:

    @greengrocer said:

    It was was quite a few years later that bands like Public Enemy came to life with there rage against anything white (clearly influenced by the punk nti-authoritarianism) and even later you get the whole gangsta movement that was glorifying crime which you again could even see as influenced by the same anti-establisment stance punk took.
    >

    The stupidity of anyone raging against people purely based on skin colour seems to have bypassed Public Enemy and co. It’s a million miles from what MLK preached. Hatred only breeds more hatred.

    Not sure your punk influence argument stands up, either. Sure, they challenged corrupted authority and pointless tradition, but did not glorify crime, drugs, or violence against women. So if that is really where Gangstas got thier ideas, then they misunderstood.

    Quantifiably false statement about PE. PE is decidedly pro-black, in terms of economic self-sufficiency and positive community action to improve the quality of life for African-Americans, but they were NOT raging against skin color. That’s a remark borne of ignorance, which breeds fear, then hostility. Listen CLOSELY, if you can, to the whole song.

  • @greengrocer said:

    @syrupcore said:

    >
    You probably missed my point. My example about punk and rap were meant als examples of typical white and black things that started around the same time underground in different groups (white middle/ upperclass and black ghetto). As things went mainstream they were not anymore exclusive to those social groups.

    btw The punk movement was questioning and attacking authority, the rap movement stems more from the tradition of Martin Luther King and was in the first place one of how can we make our situation better and do it the best way we can. Hence critique on local situations like drugs abuse, etc. It was was quite a few years later that bands like Public Enemy came to life with there rage against anything white (clearly influenced by the punk nti-authoritarianism) and even later you get the whole gangsta movement that was glorifying crime which you again could even see as influenced by the same anti-establisment stance punk took. And yes except chords feelings do also matter a lot in music.

    gangsterism in music is a genre, we wouldn't expect gangsters to make anything else, but imo rap music didn't go from Martin Luther king to public enemy to gangsterism.. all of those things existed at the same time, not to mention the strain that descended from the last poets and many others.... there are many genres within rap music, they are just not given the same respect that people naturally give in the Sex, Drugs, and Rock&Roll genres of music, I have no idea why. Maybe it's because of the foundation America was built upon, maybe it's something else. I guess nobody gives hi-fives when rappers trash hotel rooms and talks about how rad it is to see that happen lol.

    mathematically speaking I think for every QJ virtuoso there are still about a zillion non-Virtuosos who think their music sounds like butterscotch so if w are being entirely fair and judge everyone equally Quincy would still come out on top :D

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