Groove Rider GR-16 Released!

jimpavloff

@rs2000 said:

The last "Jog" one has the wrong label btw, it should be "<64" for increments and ">64" for decrements.

The 4th is wrong also - it is the same as 1st. Looks like a big mess with this thing in the midi controller world.

rs2000

@jimpavloff said:

@rs2000 said:

The last "Jog" one has the wrong label btw, it should be "<64" for increments and ">64" for decrements.

The 4th is wrong also - it is the same as 1st. Looks like a big mess with this thing in the midi controller world.

😅 You're right, we'll have to check that one again.
Well, at least all my controllers from Arturia, Behringer, Faderfox and the DJ scratch controller all work perfectly with the endless dials so my diagram seems to be correct.

tpj

@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

jimpavloff

@tpj said:
@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

You can use the same one knob to control a corresponding parameter of any part, which is currently selected in GR-16, if you will set global Midi In Mode to Omni in GR's Settings. In Omni mode, GR will receive midi data and drive it to only currently selected part. Please check this and let me know, if this is what you mean.

Sergiu

Hi Jim, thank you for the update...I have a noob question. How can I use and map several midi controllers inside Grooverider or PA?

I have a midi keyboard that is just to record melodic lines, then other controllers just to tweak parameters. In midi settings I would have to change all the time the destination...which in a live jam would not work anyways.

Is this setup possible with multi out? Thank you!

wim

@Sergiu said:
Hi Jim, thank you for the update...I have a noob question. How can I use and map several midi controllers inside Grooverider or PA?

I have a midi keyboard that is just to record melodic lines, then other controllers just to tweak parameters. In midi settings I would have to change all the time the destination...which in a live jam would not work anyways.

Is this setup possible with multi out? Thank you!

Do your controllers each use their own midi channel?

rs2000

@jimpavloff said:

@tpj said:
@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

You can use the same one knob to control a corresponding parameter of any part, which is currently selected in GR-16, if you will set global Midi In Mode to Omni in GR's Settings. In Omni mode, GR will receive midi data and drive it to only currently selected part. Please check this and let me know, if this is what you mean.

No, being able to use the same CC in different parts now is great, no complaints.
What @tpj means is that if you use cheap MIDI controllers with potentiometers instead of endless rotary encoders, every time you turn a knob the destination value will jump to a totally different position while with incremental midi messages like in the Beatstep (see my previous description), the destination knob will move exactly like you turn the knob, no jumps.
Synths like Waldorf blofeld, Digitone/Digitakt and most modern groove boxes, even some controls on the Electribe 2 are all endless controls that won't cause value jumps when you turn a knob.

This is especially useful when controlling the same parameters in 16 different tracks.

rs2000

.

Sergiu

@wim said:

@Sergiu said:
Hi Jim, thank you for the update...I have a noob question. How can I use and map several midi controllers inside Grooverider or PA?

I have a midi keyboard that is just to record melodic lines, then other controllers just to tweak parameters. In midi settings I would have to change all the time the destination...which in a live jam would not work anyways.

Is this setup possible with multi out? Thank you!

Do your controllers each use their own midi channel?

Thanks Wim! Have to check that! But you cannot select more than one controller anyway from midi settings ( at least grooverider)

wim

@Sergiu said:

@wim said:

@Sergiu said:
Hi Jim, thank you for the update...I have a noob question. How can I use and map several midi controllers inside Grooverider or PA?

I have a midi keyboard that is just to record melodic lines, then other controllers just to tweak parameters. In midi settings I would have to change all the time the destination...which in a live jam would not work anyways.

Is this setup possible with multi out? Thank you!

Do your controllers each use their own midi channel?

Thanks Wim! Have to check that! But you cannot select more than one controller anyway from midi settings ( at least grooverider)

Ahh. I see now. Yes, you'd probably have to send your midi controllers to Audiobus, AUM, MidiFlow, MidiFire or something similar, then send from there to GR-16.

Sergiu

Well, I normally use Aum. and I loaded Grooverider as IAA, then in midi sources i selected all of my controllers, but still only the one selected inside grooverider is responding to mapping

@wim said:

@Sergiu said:

@wim said:

@Sergiu said:
Hi Jim, thank you for the update...I have a noob question. How can I use and map several midi controllers inside Grooverider or PA?

I have a midi keyboard that is just to record melodic lines, then other controllers just to tweak parameters. In midi settings I would have to change all the time the destination...which in a live jam would not work anyways.

Is this setup possible with multi out? Thank you!

Do your controllers each use their own midi channel?

Thanks Wim! Have to check that! But you cannot select more than one controller anyway from midi settings ( at least grooverider)

Ahh. I see now. Yes, you'd probably have to send your midi controllers to Audiobus, AUM, MidiFlow, MidiFire or something similar, then send from there to GR-16.

wim

@Sergiu - In AUM your controllers need to all be routed to "GR-16 Midi In". In GR-16, Midi in should be "No Device" and Virtual Midi In should be "On".

Sergiu

Ohh Good Tip! Thx> @wim said:

In AUM your controllers need to all be routed to "GR-16 Midi In". In GR-16, Midi in should be "No Device" and Virtual Midi In should be "On".

Sergiu

It works! Wim I appreciate! > @wim said:

@Sergiu - In AUM your controllers need to all be routed to "GR-16 Midi In". In GR-16, Midi in should be "No Device" and Virtual Midi In should be "On".

wim

👍🏼

jimpavloff

@rs2000 said:

@jimpavloff said:

@tpj said:
@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

You can use the same one knob to control a corresponding parameter of any part, which is currently selected in GR-16, if you will set global Midi In Mode to Omni in GR's Settings. In Omni mode, GR will receive midi data and drive it to only currently selected part. Please check this and let me know, if this is what you mean.

No, being able to use the same CC in different parts now is great, no complaints.
What @tpj means is that if you use cheap MIDI controllers with potentiometers instead of endless rotary encoders, every time you turn a knob the destination value will jump to a totally different position while with incremental midi messages like in the Beatstep (see my previous description), the destination knob will move exactly like you turn the knob, no jumps.
Synths like Waldorf blofeld, Digitone/Digitakt and most modern groove boxes, even some controls on the Electribe 2 are all endless controls that won't cause value jumps when you turn a knob.

This is especially useful when controlling the same parameters in 16 different tracks.

I see what he means now. Regarding relative midi, I'm going to implement something to support it. I will probably do autodetection, and as an alternative, an ability to select one global type of relative midi controller manually for all GR knobs.

wim

@rs2000 said:
...
What @tpj means is that if you use cheap MIDI controllers with potentiometers instead of endless rotary encoders, every time you turn a knob the destination value will jump to a totally different position while with incremental midi messages like in the Beatstep (see my previous description), the destination knob will move exactly like you turn the knob, no jumps.

Midi Knob Mode: "Catch" addresses the jumping for us with the cheapo potentiometer MIDI controllers.

rs2000

@wim If it works well for you that's great.
I'd prefer touching glass instead of using hardware knobs that are always at the wrong position.

rs2000

@jimpavloff said:

@rs2000 said:

@jimpavloff said:

@tpj said:
@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

You can use the same one knob to control a corresponding parameter of any part, which is currently selected in GR-16, if you will set global Midi In Mode to Omni in GR's Settings. In Omni mode, GR will receive midi data and drive it to only currently selected part. Please check this and let me know, if this is what you mean.

No, being able to use the same CC in different parts now is great, no complaints.
What @tpj means is that if you use cheap MIDI controllers with potentiometers instead of endless rotary encoders, every time you turn a knob the destination value will jump to a totally different position while with incremental midi messages like in the Beatstep (see my previous description), the destination knob will move exactly like you turn the knob, no jumps.
Synths like Waldorf blofeld, Digitone/Digitakt and most modern groove boxes, even some controls on the Electribe 2 are all endless controls that won't cause value jumps when you turn a knob.

This is especially useful when controlling the same parameters in 16 different tracks.

I see what he means now. Regarding relative midi, I'm going to implement something to support it. I will probably do autodetection, and as an alternative, an ability to select one global type of relative midi controller manually for all GR knobs.

Sounds like another excellent solution planned from your magic code kitchen 👍🏼
Thanks a lot for taking care!

wim

@rs2000 said:
@wim If it works well for you that's great.
I'd prefer touching glass instead of using hardware knobs that are always at the wrong position.

No disagreement there. Well - I do like haptics, but I don't like setting up hardware and don't have a fixed studio location, so glass it is, usually. I was just pointing out that "Catch" or "Pickup Mode" is a reasonable compromise for non-endless encoders. Sometimes people who might be reading might not know that option is there in GR-16 and some other apps.

rs2000

@wim True! In fact, I find a great portion of the touch screen charm in using the device as-is, anywhere, anytime, without any cables, controllers or whatever.
Well, let's exclude wired headphones 😅

When using live, I'd love to attach a controller though.

Sergiu

HI Rs2000, which website are you using for serum wavetables? Never used wavetables...Are they normal wav. files? > @rs2000 said:

@Oblique said:
I love this app! bought the new IAP and can't wait to mess with it after work. What I find weird (about me, not the app) is that I used to own the Korg E2 (which this app emulates), and ultimately couldn't get on with it. I only bought GR16 as an inexpensive way to store and transfer patterns from the E2, but I find it way easier to use than the hardware. So much more intuitive to explore the layout and workflow as a touchscreen.

And then there's the fantastic wavetable engine that will load Serum wavetables 😉

My only slight beef is with loading/playing samples. Still find this a bit clunky.

My sampling workflow:

• Record a sample from TwistedWave (better editing) or AudioShare (hosts IAA sources like the Streemur web radio app)
• Trim the sample
• Share > Open in > Copy to GrooveRider

rs2000

@Sergiu Just google "free serum wavetables". That's what I've started with, there is a lot to explore. They're basically WAV files with a number of single-cycle waveforms one after another, each "frame" is 2048 samples long.

This is different from the sampling workflow I've sketched.

Sergiu

Thx!

sigma79

Drums on ios are annoying. I make beats with hardware, then remove kick and maybe snare so it can be processed and for stutter effects. Maybe Gr-16 can have the probabilty of drambo ( even sequenced via drambo? ) but with the stutter effects of elastic drums?

RajahP

@sigma79 said:
Drums on ios are annoying. I make beats with hardware, then remove kick and maybe snare so it can be processed and for stutter effects. Maybe Gr-16 can have the probabilty of drambo ( even sequenced via drambo? ) but with the stutter effects of elastic drums?

GR-16 has ‘probability’ (if I misunderstood you)... The ‘Jump’ feature does a great stutter effect too..

Edit.. can someone say ..... Auv3?

tpj

@rs2000 said:

@jimpavloff said:

@tpj said:
@jimpavloff

No offense, i am no programmer but i do know relative midi is the only real solution if you want to control 16 instruments each with 10 independent parameters using only 10 knobs. Jump and catch is not a solution.

I control Lightroom sliders with relative midi If i change an image, all the encoder leds jump to current setting for every slider. And this is a Photo editing tool with a free midi plugin on a desktop OS.
If a knobs sends relative i can set it to two's complement and be done.
All my midi controllers work flawless with relative midi in any daw or plugin on desktop OS.

Having this in Grooverider would be really gold.

You can use the same one knob to control a corresponding parameter of any part, which is currently selected in GR-16, if you will set global Midi In Mode to Omni in GR's Settings. In Omni mode, GR will receive midi data and drive it to only currently selected part. Please check this and let me know, if this is what you mean.

No, being able to use the same CC in different parts now is great, no complaints.
What @tpj means is that if you use cheap MIDI controllers with potentiometers instead of endless rotary encoders, every time you turn a knob the destination value will jump to a totally different position while with incremental midi messages like in the Beatstep (see my previous description), the destination knob will move exactly like you turn the knob, no jumps.
Synths like Waldorf blofeld, Digitone/Digitakt and most modern groove boxes, even some controls on the Electribe 2 are all endless controls that won't cause value jumps when you turn a knob.

This is especially useful when controlling the same parameters in 16 different tracks.

@rs2000 Thank you for explaining. Thats exactly what i meant.

@jimpavloff Thank you for understanding and taking time to look at this! 🙏🏻

Controllers with endless rotary encoders usually have led rings to show the current cc value of the mapped parameter. This requires that the midi controller receives midi cc values when changing the current selected instrument. This will fully ‘sync’ the state bi-directionally using relative midi.
Hopefull this can work as well as GR16 already is able to send cc values over midi out.

Thanks again for all your work on this amazing app.🙌🏻

sigma79

Shouldnt really have to combine all different apps just to make a beat. It ends up losing patterns and saves and you have to perform synths and drums live, unless you make recordings of drums before or after but its better still. I should just see it as different drum machines and different track systems.> @RajahP said:

@sigma79 said:
Drums on ios are annoying. I make beats with hardware, then remove kick and maybe snare so it can be processed and for stutter effects. Maybe Gr-16 can have the probabilty of drambo ( even sequenced via drambo? ) but with the stutter effects of elastic drums?

GR-16 has ‘probability’ (if I misunderstood you)... The ‘Jump’ feature does a great stutter effect too..

Edit.. can someone say ..... Auv3?

Hi. Yeah was going to say. Dont need to be sequenced via drambo. Think gr has a good amount of bars and probabilites etc anyway and hopefully stutter via midi is cool. Plus I kind of lose patterns anyway with a hybrid setup. Maybe I need an ios audio clip launcher that has a good amount of bars. Is there any audio clip launchers that arnt IAA?

rs2000

@sigma79 said:
Is there any audio clip launchers that arnt IAA?

IMHO the most relevant candidates are Drambo and AudioLayer.

sigma79

Cheers using Drambo also. Ios drum machines are actually good.