Odessa (LIVE - IT FINALLY HAPPENED!)

bleep

With multiple Odessa instances, it is tempting to try to keep things tidy by naming channels in AUM. These names don´t show up in the MIDI routing matrix, unfortunately. Would that be possible for the upcoming routing table, @j_liljedahl? (Btw, if you are going to enable multiple MIDI AUs in a single vertical channel, will the individual instances get separate names?)

Would it also be possible to display the channel names in the title of the AU windows? If you now open 3 XYs at the same time, you get the titles "Odessa XY@Ch5", "Odessa XY@Ch6", ..., having to remember what is what. It would be nice if these titles could be "XY Laplace", "XY Mersenne" and other user-set channel names.

lukesleepwalker

@MonzoPro said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@MonzoPro said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@MonzoPro said:
I’m loving controlling Gadget with this: using the XOX to trigger Gadget drum tracks and Abu Dhabi, The ARP connected to a Gadget synth and Bassline connected to a....Gadget bass. All jammed via the AUM keyboard, with a bit of switching back to the Gadget mixer.

The best fun I’ve had making music on the iPad in a long time.

Interesting. Can I ask why better than using gadget sequencers?

Sure. As I prefer jamming stuff out live, I can build sequences and rhythms quicker with the AUM/Brambos combo, and trigger them from lots of different AU sources, with lots of use of the randomiser. If Brambos add a transpose option per section, then I could jam out a whole track this way. Only hassle is jumping back and forth to the Gadget mixer window, so I need to investigate the split screen thingy.

That's what I figured. Thanks for insight into your workflow. Or playflow, actually.

It’s mucking about really, but the only way I can work these days. I can sit down with a guitar and write a whole song, stick into a DAW, and bass and whatnot and it’ll sound like ‘a proper thing. But I find myself slipping into the same old riffs and cliches, and the finished track sounds dull as ditchwater to my ears - I almost don’t need to record it as it’s already been done a million times in my head already.

However, if I chuck a load of apps together, jam, randomise and generally play about I’ll stumble on new things. Things I haven’t heard before. 95% is unlistenable rubbish, but the other 5 entertains me at least.

I then pick a few of these recorded jams at random, and mix them together in Soundforge - again, throwing another random element into the process, and from this I’ll have a finished track.

When I listen back to it, it’ll probably be the first time I’ve heard it all the way through, so it’s like listening to someone else’s track.

Weird I know, but it keeps me off the streets.

Not weird at all. I could have written every word here. The worst is when I write a proper song, usually for a friend's funeral or as a gift to a family member, and they say, "you have talent, why don't you do more of that?" And I just stare back blankly....

brambos

@DaveMagoo said:
Does it have swing?

Yes

@busker said:
Does it blend?

Ofcourse!

Will

@brambos said:

@DaveMagoo said:
Does it have swing?

Yes

Even the arpegiator has got that BB swang. It's a delight.

TheVimFuego

Does it djent?

Will

@j_liljedahl not sure what your plans are for the MIDI plugins view but had a couple of ideas I thought I'd throw out there to control the recent Odessa induced session sprawl.

1) Add the ability to insert MIDI plugins in the insert effect position. By default, this would set the channel input as the MIDI plugin's target. Hurray for zero config!

2) Allow for MIDI plugins to be added via the channel input's hamburger menu. If the channel has a midi plugin as one of its sources, the hamburger slides up and a small plugin icon circle is added below it. Can tap the icon to edit the midi plugin settings. Thinking a circle a little bigger than the hamburger menu but smaller than the insert circles. Also zero config for most use cases. The plugins should still be midi sources and destinations so that they can serve other purposes (and use the keyboard or be transposed by another sequencer...). On that note, this wouldn't remove the ability to insert midi plugins like they are now but I'm finding that in use, it's almost always a 1:1 relationship between an Odessa instance and some AU/IAA.

3) Add a separate "MIDI" view. This could also house whatever your cooking up to replace the routing matrix. I don't mean like the AB3 MIDI page. I'm imagining an area to add/open midi plugins and a routing area. Fwiw, I think the current matrix is perfect. If it used most of the screen most of the growing-session pains would go away.

I think number 2 could be pretty clean for a lot of use cases. One UI problem with it that number 1 doesn't have is adding multiple midi plugins on the same channel (say and LFO and an ARP). The UI is already there for this use case with insert effects. Like I said, I'm finding that way more often than not it's a 1:1 relationship so this is not a big deal (for me anyway) if we retain the ability to add Odessa channels like we currently do.

Will

Is it possible for a host app to inform an AU plugin of other hosted AU plugin controls? Would be sweet to just select from a list of existing possible destinations for each LFO, for instance.

brambos

@syrupcore said:
Is it possible for a host app to inform an AU plugin of other hosted AU plugin controls? Would be sweet to just select from a list of existing possible destinations for each LFO, for instance.

Not without extending the standard. But since you can send the MIDI output to multiple destinations it would become really complex quickly. I feel that AUM's "MIDI CTRL" setup panel is already a pretty elegant mechanism for hooking up arbitrary CC# to AU Parameters.

j_liljedahl

@syrupcore said:
@j_liljedahl not sure what your plans are for the MIDI plugins view but had a couple of ideas I thought I'd throw out there to control the recent Odessa induced session sprawl.

1) Add the ability to insert MIDI plugins in the insert effect position. By default, this would set the channel input as the MIDI plugin's target. Hurray for zero config!

2) Allow for MIDI plugins to be added via the channel input's hamburger menu. If the channel has a midi plugin as one of its sources, the hamburger slides up and a small plugin icon circle is added below it. Can tap the icon to edit the midi plugin settings. Thinking a circle a little bigger than the hamburger menu but smaller than the insert circles. Also zero config for most use cases. The plugins should still be midi sources and destinations so that they can serve other purposes (and use the keyboard or be transposed by another sequencer...). On that note, this wouldn't remove the ability to insert midi plugins like they are now but I'm finding that in use, it's almost always a 1:1 relationship between an Odessa instance and some AU/IAA.

3) Add a separate "MIDI" view. This could also house whatever your cooking up to replace the routing matrix. I don't mean like the AB3 MIDI page. I'm imagining an area to add/open midi plugins and a routing area. Fwiw, I think the current matrix is perfect. If it used most of the screen most of the growing-session pains would go away.

I think number 2 could be pretty clean for a lot of use cases. One UI problem with it that number 1 doesn't have is adding multiple midi plugins on the same channel (say and LFO and an ARP). The UI is already there for this use case with insert effects. Like I said, I'm finding that way more often than not it's a 1:1 relationship so this is not a big deal (for me anyway) if we retain the ability to add Odessa channels like we currently do.

So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

lukesleepwalker

@j_liljedahl said:

@syrupcore said:
@j_liljedahl not sure what your plans are for the MIDI plugins view but had a couple of ideas I thought I'd throw out there to control the recent Odessa induced session sprawl.

1) Add the ability to insert MIDI plugins in the insert effect position. By default, this would set the channel input as the MIDI plugin's target. Hurray for zero config!

2) Allow for MIDI plugins to be added via the channel input's hamburger menu. If the channel has a midi plugin as one of its sources, the hamburger slides up and a small plugin icon circle is added below it. Can tap the icon to edit the midi plugin settings. Thinking a circle a little bigger than the hamburger menu but smaller than the insert circles. Also zero config for most use cases. The plugins should still be midi sources and destinations so that they can serve other purposes (and use the keyboard or be transposed by another sequencer...). On that note, this wouldn't remove the ability to insert midi plugins like they are now but I'm finding that in use, it's almost always a 1:1 relationship between an Odessa instance and some AU/IAA.

3) Add a separate "MIDI" view. This could also house whatever your cooking up to replace the routing matrix. I don't mean like the AB3 MIDI page. I'm imagining an area to add/open midi plugins and a routing area. Fwiw, I think the current matrix is perfect. If it used most of the screen most of the growing-session pains would go away.

I think number 2 could be pretty clean for a lot of use cases. One UI problem with it that number 1 doesn't have is adding multiple midi plugins on the same channel (say and LFO and an ARP). The UI is already there for this use case with insert effects. Like I said, I'm finding that way more often than not it's a 1:1 relationship so this is not a big deal (for me anyway) if we retain the ability to add Odessa channels like we currently do.

So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

That last idea is brilliant but has discoverability issues that would require an affordance.

Carnbot

@lukesleepwalker said:

@j_liljedahl said:

@syrupcore said:
@j_liljedahl not sure what your plans are for the MIDI plugins view but had a couple of ideas I thought I'd throw out there to control the recent Odessa induced session sprawl.

1) Add the ability to insert MIDI plugins in the insert effect position. By default, this would set the channel input as the MIDI plugin's target. Hurray for zero config!

2) Allow for MIDI plugins to be added via the channel input's hamburger menu. If the channel has a midi plugin as one of its sources, the hamburger slides up and a small plugin icon circle is added below it. Can tap the icon to edit the midi plugin settings. Thinking a circle a little bigger than the hamburger menu but smaller than the insert circles. Also zero config for most use cases. The plugins should still be midi sources and destinations so that they can serve other purposes (and use the keyboard or be transposed by another sequencer...). On that note, this wouldn't remove the ability to insert midi plugins like they are now but I'm finding that in use, it's almost always a 1:1 relationship between an Odessa instance and some AU/IAA.

3) Add a separate "MIDI" view. This could also house whatever your cooking up to replace the routing matrix. I don't mean like the AB3 MIDI page. I'm imagining an area to add/open midi plugins and a routing area. Fwiw, I think the current matrix is perfect. If it used most of the screen most of the growing-session pains would go away.

I think number 2 could be pretty clean for a lot of use cases. One UI problem with it that number 1 doesn't have is adding multiple midi plugins on the same channel (say and LFO and an ARP). The UI is already there for this use case with insert effects. Like I said, I'm finding that way more often than not it's a 1:1 relationship so this is not a big deal (for me anyway) if we retain the ability to add Odessa channels like we currently do.

So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

That last idea is brilliant but has discoverability issues that would require an affordance.

These shortcuts sound great, I’m finding wiring up lots of midi channels get confusing quickly. How about a virtual midi cable dragged between the midi slot and the channel. The cable disappears after connecting is complete. Something visual like that could be good too..

j_liljedahl

@lukesleepwalker said:

@j_liljedahl said:
So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

That last idea is brilliant but has discoverability issues that would require an affordance.

It would just be an extra shortcut. One could still tap the menu button next to the node and manually select sources and destinations.

lukesleepwalker

@j_liljedahl said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@j_liljedahl said:
So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

That last idea is brilliant but has discoverability issues that would require an affordance.

It would just be an extra shortcut. One could still tap the menu button next to the node and manually select sources and destinations.

Gotcha. Still, it'd be nice to be able to discover the shortcuts. I thought the Samplebot onboarding flow was excellent in this regard. Different market segments, I realize, but AUM has to be a gateway for many iOS music first timers...

brambos

Intua showing some intriguing work in progress: running Odessa MIDI plugins in BM3!

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/932301797338820613

lukesleepwalker

@brambos said:
Intua showing some intriguing work in progress: running Odessa MIDI plugins in BM3!

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/932301797338820613

HEY NOW!

[Deleted User]

Just tried a DrumJam (triggered via Rhythm), iFretless bass and guitar (triggered via separate Bassline instances) jam and it didn’t work. Well, it did, but after enabling record in AUM, when I nipped in to iFretless (guitar) to add some live notes it’s Bassline sequence stopped, but worked again as soon as I exited. But then iFretless bass bombed out.

Sigh....back to the same old AUM nonsense. I love the app, but 50% of the time something drops out or crashes. I get tempted back into the iOS world, but it slaps me round the face every time I get a good groove going.

Chaztrip

@brambos said:
Intua showing some intriguing work in progress: running Odessa MIDI plugins in BM3!

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/932301797338820613

How are they doing this ? Is this outside of AUM?

aaronpc

@brambos said:
Intua showing some intriguing work in progress: running Odessa MIDI plugins in BM3!

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/932301797338820613

And so it begins...

Littlewoodg

How are they doing this ? Is this outside of AUM?

Intua is going to allow BM3 to exploit the same iOS 11 AU feature that AUM does (the AUv3 MIDI output mentioned in the tweet)

Chaztrip

@Littlewoodg said:

How are they doing this ? Is this outside of AUM?

Intua is going to allow BM3 to exploit the same iOS 11 AU feature that AUM does (the AUv3 MIDI output mentioned in the tweet)

Exploit as in some bug? I can’t seem to find the midi routing for this in BM3.

Littlewoodg

@Chaztrip said:

@Littlewoodg said:

How are they doing this ? Is this outside of AUM?

Intua is going to allow BM3 to exploit the same iOS 11 AU feature that AUM does (the AUv3 MIDI output mentioned in the tweet)

Exploit as in some bug? I can’t seem to find the midi routing for this in BM3.

Not there yet in BM3...it’s a OS feature rather than a bug, and AUM was the first host to access it, as Odessa is the first AU to do the AUv3 MIDI send thing (so well and in so many ways). AUM and Odessa were early implementers but to paraphrase @aaronpc, with Intua’s tweet it looks like it’s on like Donkey Kong

Will

@brambos said:

@syrupcore said:
Is it possible for a host app to inform an AU plugin of other hosted AU plugin controls? Would be sweet to just select from a list of existing possible destinations for each LFO, for instance.

Not without extending the standard. But since you can send the MIDI output to multiple destinations it would become really complex quickly. I feel that AUM's "MIDI CTRL" setup panel is already a pretty elegant mechanism for hooking up arbitrary CC# to AU Parameters.

Gotcha re: the standard. Thanks. Seems weird to me as a web developer but I know Apple leans sandboxy and I lean on the side of trusting there's good reason for it.

Presuming it was possible without extending the standard... AUM's MIDI Setup is definitely the most elegant in the biz. Still, since most of my use cases are 1:1, I'd prefer to select them directly and then turn to the MIDI setup panel when I need more.

Will

@j_liljedahl said:

@syrupcore said:
@j_liljedahl not sure what your plans are for the MIDI plugins view but had a couple of ideas I thought I'd throw out there to control the recent Odessa induced session sprawl.

1) Add the ability to insert MIDI plugins in the insert effect position. By default, this would set the channel input as the MIDI plugin's target. Hurray for zero config!

2) Allow for MIDI plugins to be added via the channel input's hamburger menu. If the channel has a midi plugin as one of its sources, the hamburger slides up and a small plugin icon circle is added below it. Can tap the icon to edit the midi plugin settings. Thinking a circle a little bigger than the hamburger menu but smaller than the insert circles. Also zero config for most use cases. The plugins should still be midi sources and destinations so that they can serve other purposes (and use the keyboard or be transposed by another sequencer...). On that note, this wouldn't remove the ability to insert midi plugins like they are now but I'm finding that in use, it's almost always a 1:1 relationship between an Odessa instance and some AU/IAA.

3) Add a separate "MIDI" view. This could also house whatever your cooking up to replace the routing matrix. I don't mean like the AB3 MIDI page. I'm imagining an area to add/open midi plugins and a routing area. Fwiw, I think the current matrix is perfect. If it used most of the screen most of the growing-session pains would go away.

I think number 2 could be pretty clean for a lot of use cases. One UI problem with it that number 1 doesn't have is adding multiple midi plugins on the same channel (say and LFO and an ARP). The UI is already there for this use case with insert effects. Like I said, I'm finding that way more often than not it's a 1:1 relationship so this is not a big deal (for me anyway) if we retain the ability to add Odessa channels like we currently do.

So far, my idea is to have MIDI slots, which are not part of an audio channel but exists in a visual container that lives amongst the audio channels. A MIDI slot can host one AU MIDI plugin node. There can be multiple such midi slot containers, and each container can have a number of midi slots stacked vertically (similar to the current fx nodes). This way the user can arrange their stuff in a logical way visually.

I don't want any automatic 1:1 relationship, but rather add shortcuts or improve UI to make it really fast and easy to connect stuff. For example, what about holding an AU MIDI node while touching another node to connect them? (sorry, one-handed people..)

Having trouble visualizing this but that shortcut sounds great to me.

Separate from the 1:1 relationship, the ability to add/create a midi source from the hamburger menu could also be a nice shortcut. AUM would add the MIDI slot and make the connection between the two automatically.

eross

how can i set this up to run syntronik? i tried from aum but couldn’t get any midi to go into syntronik

Littlewoodg

@eross said:
how can i set this up to run syntronik? i tried from aum but couldn’t get any midi to go into syntronik

In the midi routing, point Odessa at Syntroniks “Virtual In” rather than its AUM channel Input. Also Syntronik background audio is off by default. Always something...but persist, it works.

Will

@Littlewoodg said:

@eross said:
how can i set this up to run syntronik? i tried from aum but couldn’t get any midi to go into syntronik

In the midi routing, point Odessa at Syntroniks “Virtual In” rather than its AUM channel Input. Also Syntronik background audio is off by default. Always something...but persist, it works.

Really hoping Audiobus supports Odessa and its followers too. Some stuff like turning background audio on is automatic when loaded into Audiobus.

oat_phipps

I’ve been getting some excellent results just generating several basslines and rhythms and switching between them, then overdubbing sleazy 80s cop show guitar leads over them. What a sick pleasure that it’s so easy. If anybody needs a theme for a pilot lemme know.

Telstar5

@j_liljedahl :
Could this be potentially the ios answer to Squarp Pyramid What with Euclidean step sequencing and the like?

eross

@Littlewoodg said:

@eross said:
how can i set this up to run syntronik? i tried from aum but couldn’t get any midi to go into syntronik

In the midi routing, point Odessa at Syntroniks “Virtual In” rather than its AUM channel Input. Also Syntronik background audio is off by default. Always something...but persist, it works.

excellent

AndyPlankton

@lukesleepwalker said:

@brambos said:
Intua showing some intriguing work in progress: running Odessa MIDI plugins in BM3!

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/932301797338820613

HEY NOW!

This could finally drag me off the fence with BM3