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OT: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? (Video by Thoughty2)

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Comments

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    Strawberry Fields is fantastic. But it's not on Sgt Pepper :)

    I didn't say it was, I said it was the taster single for the album.

    Think it was meant for the next album, along with Penny Lane, but EMI wanted another single. Shame, they would have worked well on the album, making it less 'crap'.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    Think it was meant for the next album, along with Penny Lane, but EMI wanted another single. Shame, they would have worked well on the album, making it less 'crap'.

    Well, we can't have everything. ;) If only George Martin had been a touch more talented; no crap at all.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @JRSIV said:
    but one look at the charts of the last 65 years shows the youth of the day drives the commercial music. And guess what? Those 'youngsters' usually think their parents music is shit.

    Not so sure about that. Although they didn't dare admit it at the time, for obvious reasons, even Elvis Costello (via Steve Naive) and the Sex Pistols borrowed from ABBA. The Clash and The Jam always rated The Kinks and The Who. Their drive and rebellion, of course, was against the prog rock 'gods' who had become incredibly self-indulgent and had nothing in common with most people's reality. There was also a political element, against the relentless unfairness of Thatcher'sUK. That gave us gems such as Rat Race and Ghost Town from The Specials.

    So what I'm saying is every generation quite rightly wants to kick against the previous generation, who have authority and seniority over them. But a great many also see value in taking what was good from the past, and putting a new spin on it, or using it as the basis of something fresh. I am put in mind of one hit wonder White Town who had an international hit with 'Your Woman' sampling an ancient Al Boley track. From the old comes the new.

    I absolutely agree. I used to be openly MOCKED. by my contemporaries in Jr. High in the early '90's for my love of the Beatles. Today, young people almosy universally embrace them.

    I said there's no absolutes in my post, many don't succumb to a generation gap rebellion and totally dig music of the past. My point was about the "successful" music at the top of the charts. All artist's can he influenced by the previous generation(s) but the charts bear out what sells most is the "new" music, artists and genres at least on the surface to not be overly influenced by an older generation.

    For instance, for every Adele, who is an excellent singer, and IS a throwback to the young ingenue vocalists like Dusty Springfield, Aretha, Mary Hopkins, etc. there are 10 hip-hop acts like DJ Khaled :weary: , 10 anonymous "male vocalists/singer songwriters" like Ed Sheeran or an EDM, left field act.

    I'm sorry, I try to give all music a chance, but that music, at the top of the charts, I can't get behind at all. There are exceptions but not in awhile. That was my point. There's tons of great music here in our community, on SoundCloud and on iTunes if you dig deep enough. My point was geared towards the more successful "Pop" top of the charts end of the spectrum.

  • edited August 2017

    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

  • @richardyot said:
    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    Suede lol.

    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    Suede lol.

    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

    I think it was just all the celebrity endorsements on the cover.

  • edited August 2017

    @MonzoPro said:
    Suede lol.
    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

    That's because it was the example offered in that video in the original post that kicked off the thread, to say music was a lot better in the past. I just thought it was a poor example :) (as a Beatles fan!)

    @MonzoPro said:
    Suede lol.

    Suede were good. Seriously, give them a listen.

  • edited August 2017

    @richardyot said:
    Mediocre Songs: She's Leaving Home,

    Oh, come on, that is a really good Macca song,

    I've always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    That explains a lot. ;)

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    Mediocre Songs: She's Leaving Home,

    Oh, come on, that is a really good Macca song,

    I've always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    That explains a lot. ;)

    When did music end for you? Was the 1970s? Do you like anything from the 90s onwards? Anything from this century? Just curious.

    Not ridiculing, just asking. I thought the 90s was a pretty good decade for music, with some terrific albums that have stood the test of time. First decade of this century was also great IMO. This decade less so, but there's still hope.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    Suede lol.

    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

    I think it was just all the celebrity endorsements on the cover.

    James Joyce and Sir Robert Peel were massive fans apparently.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    Suede lol.

    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

    I think it was just all the celebrity endorsements on the cover.

    James Joyce and Sir Robert Peel were massive fans apparently.

    Apparently Hitler wasn't and insisted he be removed.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @richardyot said:
    Well if you listen to album without any of the cultural baggage, it's hard to really believe that it's one of the greatest albums of all time.

    Looking at the track listing, we have (IMO of course, your list might be different):

    Great Song: A Day In The Life.

    Good Songs (or in my view "OK songs" ;) ): Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts (Pts 1 & 2), With A Little Help From My Friends, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You

    Mediocre Songs: Getting Better, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home, For The Benefit Of Mr Kite, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita, Good Morning

    The inclusion of Strawberry Fields would definitely have given the album a lift, but for me it's not even in the top five Beatles albums. I think the praise heaped on Sgt Pepper has become received wisdom, rather than people actually listening to the record. What people forget is that amongst all the arty experimentation there was also a fair amount of what John dismissively called "Paul's granny music". McCartney had better moments on the White Album and Abbey Road.

    Having said that, I love McCartney and I think he's written some of the best songs ever written, but they're not on that album :)

    Sometimes the cultural significance of a musical event takes precedence over the actual music. I think Sgt Pepper is a case in point. In the 90s it was the Battle Of BritPop, and all the fuss about who was going to be no.1 between Blur and Oasis. A big deal was made of it all, but the two songs in question (Roll With It and Country House) weren't worthy of all the hype and weren't anywhere near the best either band could produce. But that's not always obvious at the time, because it often takes hindsight to really appreciate musical worth. I always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    Suede lol.

    Richard, your gripe seems to be the 'greatest album of all time' thing. That's just a label some people have given it, which obviously is going to be contested as it's personal opinion. I don't think it's even the best Beatle album, but I think it fully deserves recognition as one of the most influential and groundbreaking albums of the era musically and technically.

    I think it was just all the celebrity endorsements on the cover.

    James Joyce and Sir Robert Peel were massive fans apparently.

    Apparently Hitler wasn't and insisted he be removed.

    He thought Macca's granny music was overrated. Big fan of Suede, apparently.

  • edited August 2017

    Admitting to liking Suede leads to comparison with Hitler :D :)

  • @richardyot said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    Mediocre Songs: She's Leaving Home,

    Oh, come on, that is a really good Macca song,

    I've always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    That explains a lot. ;)

    When did music end for you? Was the 1970s? Do you like anything from the 90s onwards? Anything from this century? Just curious.

    Not ridiculing, just asking. I thought the 90s was a pretty good decade for music, with some terrific albums that have stood the test of time. First decade of this century was also great IMO. This decade less so, but there's still hope.

    Sure. Warp records, Tricky, Massive Attack, Bjork, PJ Harvey, Slint. Given how nostalgic Suede were, I'm not sure they're the poster child for forward looking modern tastes though...

    Incidentally, for those decrying modern pop. Look at the top 30 lists for 1994, and 1995. Mostly dreck - with plenty of stuff now seen as classic nowhere to be seen.

  • In all seriousness though, the Suede sidetrack alley is quite interesting because it relates to the issue of cultural baggage. It's really easy to dismiss music because of image, and I can understand the scoffing at Suede to some extent, because I scoffed at them too at the time, it was only much later that I re-evaluated them and decided they were pretty good after all.

    That's the challenge, to listen to music without prejudice and forget all the baggage and judge it on its own merit. You might even like Suede. I'm also a fan of Neil Diamond, The Carpenters and Elton John (!) amongst other horrors, and not ashamed to admit it :)

  • edited August 2017

    @cian said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @richardyot said:
    Mediocre Songs: She's Leaving Home,

    Oh, come on, that is a really good Macca song,

    I've always preferred Suede and Radiohead anyway...

    That explains a lot. ;)

    When did music end for you? Was the 1970s? Do you like anything from the 90s onwards? Anything from this century? Just curious.

    Not ridiculing, just asking. I thought the 90s was a pretty good decade for music, with some terrific albums that have stood the test of time. First decade of this century was also great IMO. This decade less so, but there's still hope.

    Sure. Warp records, Tricky, Massive Attack, Bjork, PJ Harvey, Slint. Given how nostalgic Suede were, I'm not sure they're the poster child for forward looking modern tastes though...

    Incidentally, for those decrying modern pop. Look at the top 30 lists for 1994, and 1995. Mostly dreck - with plenty of stuff now seen as classic nowhere to be seen.

    I loved Warp, Massive Attack and Slint. Add Pavement, Orbital and a million others to the list. I mentioned Suede in comparison to their peers Blur and Oasis, not as figureheads of 90s rock.

  • @richardyot said:
    In all seriousness though, the Suede sidetrack alley is quite interesting because it relates to the issue of cultural baggage. It's really easy to dismiss music because of image, and I can understand the scoffing at Suede to some extent, because I scoffed at them too at the time, it was only much later that I re-evaluated them and decided they were pretty good after all.

    That's the challenge, to listen to music without prejudice and forget all the baggage and judge it on its own merit. You might even like Suede. I'm also a fan of Neil Diamond, The Carpenters and Elton John (!) amongst other horrors, and not ashamed to admit it :)

    As a regular Radio 2 daytime listener it's hard to escape Elton, unless I get to the volume control in time.

    Don't mind a bit of Carpenters though, or their modern reincarnation Rumer.

    I'd rather eat my own earwax than listen to Suede though, to quote the late Winston Churchill.

  • @Max23 said:

    @kobamoto said:

    really?.. why does it come across as the 'chicks' still being the ojects, isn't it the overtness that equates to the objectifying in your definition, somehow this ''male' objectifying maintains the mans dignity, what fun is that?

    I don't know what you saw, but I saw a man getting a tongue in his ear and getting his pants ripped off,
    I don't know if that touches your dignity, but in my books that's good unclean fun. :)

    :D and what do you think the ratio was of that to female booty shakin?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited August 2017

    @Max23 said:
    Hello? It's a woman singing uh, I love my ugly boy, what's not to understand?

    Everything, apparently. Have a nice evening.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    As a regular Radio 2 daytime listener it's hard to escape Elton, unless I get to the volume control in time.

    Don't mind a bit of Carpenters though, or their modern reincarnation Rumer.

    I'd rather eat my own earwax than listen to Suede though, to quote the late Winston Churchill.

    Elton in the 70's, powered by Bernie Taupin's poetry, wrote some powerful stuff. After that, not so much. Then when he got Disneyfied it was beyond awful.

    Can't argue with the pitch perfect voice of Karen Carpenter. Tony Paluso's work on Goodbye to Love is among my favourite guitar solos. Rumer, mmmm yes.

    Suede, always came across as Bowie Lite, but without the visual, lyrical or sonic imagination.

  • @richardyot said:
    I loved Warp, Massive Attack and Slint. Add Pavement, Orbital and a million others to the list. I mentioned Suede in comparison to their peers Blur and Oasis, not as figureheads of 90s rock.

    I just thought it was funny that you brought them up and then asked if Monzo (who I like to think is really Mark E. Smith) if he liked any modern music. Even at the time all three bands sounded very dated.

  • edited August 2017

    @richardyot said:
    When did music end for you? Was the 1970s? Do you like anything from the 90s onwards? Anything from this century? Just curious.

    Music never ends.

    As for who I like from more recent times, a few names that spring to mind are; Massive Attack, John Newman, Joe Bonamassa, PJ Harvey, Alabama Shakes, Moby, Leslie Mendelson, Pink, Bat For Lashes and Sinkane, plus dozens of others.

    See how you've misjudged me now. ;)

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @cian said:

    @richardyot said:
    I loved Warp, Massive Attack and Slint. Add Pavement, Orbital and a million others to the list. I mentioned Suede in comparison to their peers Blur and Oasis, not as figureheads of 90s rock.

    I just thought it was funny that you brought them up and then asked if Monzo (who I like to think is really Mark E. Smith) if he liked any modern music. Even at the time all three bands sounded very dated.

    I am lad.

    Funnily enough even in the olde days, the '70's' bands I liked (Hawkwind, Gong, Can, Residents, Beefheart etc.) were still making new albums, so it was still contemporary. I just thought Daevid Allen was light years ahead of, say, 'Boy' George or Tony 'pencils' Hadley.

    Even now I'm mostly listening to new music (check our new album, by the way) - mostly sourced via Soundcloud, YouTube and The Wire mag.

    Though to be fair it is generally all a terrible racket.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @MonzoPro said:
    As a regular Radio 2 daytime listener it's hard to escape Elton, unless I get to the volume control in time.

    Don't mind a bit of Carpenters though, or their modern reincarnation Rumer.

    I'd rather eat my own earwax than listen to Suede though, to quote the late Winston Churchill.

    Elton in the 70's, powered by Bernie Taupin's poetry, wrote some powerful stuff. After that, not so much. Then when he got Disneyfied it was beyond awful.

    Can't argue with the pitch perfect voice of Karen Carpenter. Tony Paluso's work on Goodbye to Love is among my favourite guitar solos. Rumer, mmmm yes.

    Suede, always came across as Bowie Lite, but without the visual, lyrical or sonic imagination.

    I like one Elton song - 'I want love', and I probably only got into that one because I thought it was someone else (check the vid). I agree his old stuff was better generally, but it's not my cup of tea.

    I remember when Rumer's Slow was first played on the radio - for a while I thought it was The Carpenters. It was played endlessly until I got fed up with it, but then one day it grabbed me, and from then on I got shivers up my legs every time I heard it. I even had to pull the car over one time, and wiped a tear from my cold, bloodshot eye.

    Weird how music can grow on you like that, like some crafty sort of moss.

  • edited August 2017

    @cian said:

    @richardyot said:
    I loved Warp, Massive Attack and Slint. Add Pavement, Orbital and a million others to the list. I mentioned Suede in comparison to their peers Blur and Oasis, not as figureheads of 90s rock.

    I just thought it was funny that you brought them up and then asked if Monzo (who I like to think is really Mark E. Smith) if he liked any modern music. Even at the time all three bands sounded very dated.

    To be fair I posted music from this year earlier in the thread (examples of what I think is decent mainstream music). The whole Blur/Oasis point (which got lost along the way) wasn't about their current relevance, but about how sometimes cultural issues cloud the music - the point I was making is that the fuss that was made about the battle of the no. 1s (Blur vs Oasis) was all over two pretty mediocre songs. So I think you're taking what I said out of context somewhat.

    Also I know Monzo likes off-the-wall stuff and I respect that. :) My question was actually directed at someone else, and it wasn't asked in order to sneer, I really wanted to know.

  • @MonzoPro said
    I'd rather eat my own earwax than listen to Suede though, to quote the late Winston Churchill.

    Comment of the day

  • edited August 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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