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What's the best piano roll on an iOS app?

135

Comments

  • @Samu said:

    @8BitSamurai said:

    Have to disagree with modstep. I've gotten used to it but imo you shouldn't have to struggle to get used to something as simple as a piano roll. For instance, I hate how you have to zoom and scroll with scroll bars when intuitively I want to pinch and zoom. GarageBand and Cubasis are far superior. Modstep is deep, especially with its automation of midi cc parameters, but the piano roll itself is inferior to GB and Cubasis as far as the interface is concerned. Just my .02

    I agree here, the 'zoom' in ModStep is driving me nuts!!!
    Some of the 'tools' also feel 'counter-intuitive'.

    If/When iOS Garageband gets 'Automation Editing' it will be quite awesome!
    (You can already automate all the built-in instruments/synths but no way to edit the data).

    Considering Apple showed an updated version of Garageband at WWDC'17 (with support for scalable AUv3's) I cab only do an educated guess that It will include automation editing as well.

    I mean Apple really 'needs' to provide developers a fully featured 'Test Bench' for AUv3's...

    Whoa they showed an updated version of GB? Were you there? I'm really curious what new features it will have

  • @skiphunt said:

    @8BitSamurai said:

    @skiphunt said:

    @Samu said:
    When it comes to sheer number of editing features Yamaha MMS hands down but that's just me.
    And from what I've seen of the Audio Evolution Mobile it's pretty fully featured and has good selection tools.

    I kinda like Cubasis after the latest update and Gadget is up there on the top as well.

    Garageband is quite good back currently lacks any form of controller editing, if it gets something controller editing similar to LogicPro X it will be one of the best out there!

    I also enjoy using the sequencer/editor in BM2!

    ModSTEP is good too after one gets used to it :)

    +1 for Modstep. I avoided that one for the longest time because so many seemed imply the learning curve was too steep. Once I spent a little time with it... most of the app fell into place nicely. Definitely one of my top 3.

    Have to disagree with modstep. I've gotten used to it but imo you shouldn't have to struggle to get used to something as simple as a piano roll. For instance, I hate how you have to zoom and scroll with scroll bars when intuitively I want to pinch and zoom. GarageBand and Cubasis are far superior. Modstep is deep, especially with its automation of midi cc parameters, but the piano roll itself is inferior to GB and Cubasis as far as the interface is concerned. Just my .02

    I should've qualified my opinion somewhat. If I can get in there, figure out how it works without too much work, then have a little bit of control of the editing, without too much futzing around... then it's a good piano roll for me. That doesn't really get into how will it's actually implemented, or the degree of control you have. It just means it's easier to pick up.

    I don't have Gadget or Cubasis so I can't compare. I like Auria Pro's piano roll, but it's a bit too fidgety for me. I like the other's I mentioned more in actual use. Still, my favorite is still the piano roll in KRFT. For automation, it's Modstep.

    Not really a fan of Gadget's piano roll either lol

  • I'm 100% iPhone user (though, hopefully not for much longer), so I haven't used a lot of the ones mentioned so far.

    for me:

    1. Nanostudio
    2. Beatmaker 2
    3. Aleph Looper
    4. Garageband
    5. KRFT*

    Another vote for Nanostudio. What makes it great is the ability to transform the notes with the buttons that pop up when you select a note. I also like the way Nanostudio handles automation drawing, though I could imagine some improvements. The little static menu under the piano roll is a bit clunky/ugly, but is full of extremely useful features. I really like the select options (to the beginning, to the end) and the little tools menu being right there in the roll is very useful. Really love the automation editing in Nanostudio. I'm not sure how useful it would be without the ability to create separate automation tracks like you can in NS, but this is one thing about NS that I always loved. I find that I work faster in this roll than any others on the iPhone.

    Same deal with Beatmaker 2, but I just like the movement buttons/icons better in Nanostudio. BM2's is a little busy and the buttons are kind of small and it's not immediately clear what each button does. I do really like the little eye button that centers the view on the selected note. I just never really took to BM2. NS was my first iOS DAW, so if it had been the other way around, I might say BM2. It's clear that my preference is of the note select and transform being separated with external buttons instead of select+drag.

    Another I've used a fair amount is Aleph Looper's. My biggest issue with A.L.'s is that it takes up too much space on my iPhone. I think the data is too hard to select and not "responsive" enough to the touch. I'd much rather an assortment of context-sensitive floating buttons pop up when the data is selected than to have that big static menu always there and to have to go hunting for the correct transformation button to press. One thing I love about A.L.'s is the many transposition options available.

    I actually really dislike Garageband's roll, but I am getting used it out out of necessity. I find myself getting frustrated by trying to select a certain part of the data and then transform it with one press. Edit piano roll, zoom in on a note I want to change. Select the note, try to hold press it to drag the end of it for a longer decay... whole piano roll moves. Though my finger appears to be right on top of the data, it just won't grab for some reason. Sometimes takes me a few tries. Frustration grows; inspiration wanes.

    I really like KRFT's piano roll, though it seems obvious that it wasn't meant as a full-fledged MIDI piano roll and is still evolving into it. Hence the placement and asterisk. It's gorgeous to look at - the nicest-looking of them all imho - the notes are super easy to grab (nice and thick). I wish there were notes on the roll - maybe the first column since I have a difficult time grabbing notes that close to the edge of the screen anyway. The lack of ability to select multiple notes is the biggest thing it's missing. I'm not sure I am crazy about the grab+hold+drag method of velocity adjustment, especially when you have to grab+hold+drag to move the notes horizontally. It's easy to mess up and move a note instead of adjust velocity - especially on the small screen of an iPhone. I would imagine if we're given the ability to select and adjust multiple notes, that problem may be compounded since it will be a whole chord getting moved instead of one note. I was just now playing with it and was wondering if one elegant solution might be to allow the double-tap of a note to lock that little menu that pops up when you select a note, as it appears that all a double-tap does right now is remove and re-create a note.

  • @LeeB said:

    @iansainsbury said:

    @LeeB said:
    Nanostudio by a country mile, but it won't be around for much longer unless you're on an older 32but device.

    YES - brilliant pianoroll. Can't remember if you can turn off the grid for fine positioning, but it solved the issue of your own fingers getting in the way. Which is why BM2 was so, er, obviously 'inspired' by it ;)

    Yes, you can turn the snap off.

    Well, shows how long it is since I used it :( But that pianoroll is a thing of beauty.

  • @wim said:
    Please make copy / paste global so that you can copy from one loop's piano roll into another. :)

    Bigly.

  • As for the piano roll: NanoStudio. Took me awhile to realize why and how, but that's probably true about the whole app. It really is and was so far ahead of its time. Impressive piece of damn work.

  • Nothing new to add except KRFT was in my top four from v.1.
    For me Gadget, Modstep and Cubasis are the best. I havent used Auxy.
    The fold function in ModStep and Gadget is nice for visualising complex sequences? Id like to see that in KRFT.

  • wimwim
    edited June 2017

    Yes, fold would be great.

    Also, an indicator of note or drum pad on every row so you don't have to count up to figure out where you are.
    A slight shading difference for "black" keys on the keyboard might be helpful as well.

    And if you really want to knock it out of the park: the ability to display another track's notes as "ghost" notes in the background. B)

    oooh. And if you want to compete with the desktop boys ... ability to display the waveform of an audio clip as a ghost in the background as well. Helps with lining up beats sometimes.

  • Ghost notes is sorely missing on iOS @Alex fox. That would be major brownie points

  • Nanostudio, easily. For all the reasons mentioned already, primarily the handles and the super duper smooth two-finger zoom/pan/scroll. I'm sure the handles are weird for some but they're very quick to use and solve the "hey, my finger/hand is blocking the thing I'm trying to move right now" problem. Indeed, when BM2 completely ripped off the NS sequencer, I thought it was at least an acknowledgment of "this is the right way to do piano roll editing on the touch screen". Sadly, rarely seen otherwise!

    Also oddly rare: NS will allow you to keep the grid visible and turn off snapping so that you can move notes off the grid but still be aware of where the grid is.

    The select and add options in the bottom bar are really useful as well.

  • @db909 said:
    Ghost notes is sorely missing on iOS @Alex fox. That would be major brownie points

    What are ghost notes? My knowledge of the term is light hits on a drum kit?

  • @Alex fox said:

    @db909 said:
    Ghost notes is sorely missing on iOS @Alex fox. That would be major brownie points

    What are ghost notes? My knowledge of the term is light hits on a drum kit?

    Basically, the ability to show another loop's notes notes "read only" as dimmer notes in the background of the loop. It makes setting up timing, harmony, etc easier since you have a reference point. They're usually grey, so as to be visible without being too distracting or getting confused with the real notes.

  • Some DAWs have a similar ability to show an audio clip in the background, which can sometimes be useful for timing things based on the waveform peaks. But just the above ability would be plenty.

  • @wim said:

    @Alex fox said:

    @db909 said:
    Ghost notes is sorely missing on iOS @Alex fox. That would be major brownie points

    What are ghost notes? My knowledge of the term is light hits on a drum kit?

    Basically, the ability to show another loop's notes notes "read only" as dimmer notes in the background of the loop. It makes setting up timing, harmony, etc easier since you have a reference point. They're usually grey, so as to be visible without being too distracting or getting confused with the real notes.

    Ah ok got it. Not sure how that would work with our current implementation - I want to keep things fairly simple. Maybe in KRFT 2!

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:
    I think I'm the only one that will say this but I LOVE Modstep's pianoroll/step sequencer hybrid. It's hard as hell to get into but I honestly can't use most other piano roll at this point.

    This

    Modstep is easily the best piano roll on iOS, much better than Gadget

  • @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:
    I think I'm the only one that will say this but I LOVE Modstep's pianoroll/step sequencer hybrid. It's hard as hell to get into but I honestly can't use most other piano roll at this point.

    This

    Modstep is easily the best piano roll on iOS, much better than Gadget

    Having used gadget, cubasis, Auria pro, infinite looper, auxy and Krft I have to agree. Sad part is most will scoff that it isn't.

  • I kinda like Medley.

  • @tja said:
    Auxy much better than Gadget.
    Winner!

    Most easiest creation of steps, long and short, corrections to lengths and positions for one or a whole selection of steps, easiest Copy-und-Paste for further modifications and showcasing of new tones when moving.
    Just great!

    Only one thing is missing, which has Gadget:

    Test the tone before actually creating a step, on the left side.

    Please note, I write about Auxy Classic with MIDI, not the newer version

    Apparently, they've removed Auxy Classic from the app store

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:
    I think I'm the only one that will say this but I LOVE Modstep's pianoroll/step sequencer hybrid. It's hard as hell to get into but I honestly can't use most other piano roll at this point.

    This

    Modstep is easily the best piano roll on iOS, much better than Gadget

    Having used gadget, cubasis, Auria pro, infinite looper, auxy and Krft I have to agree. Sad part is most will scoff that it isn't.

    Their loss but yea, Modstep definitely doesn't get the recognition it deserves for it's piano roll. Sure, there is a learning curve that's probably steeper than most but the pay off is more than worth it

  • I am going to revisit and compare the ones I have:

    modstep, Gadget, Genome, Infinite Looper, midiSTEPs, KRTF, Thesys, Auxy Classic, Cubase and Auria Pro

    I don't have Nanostudio or BeatMaker, waiting for their new versions ;-)

  • Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

  • @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:
    I think I'm the only one that will say this but I LOVE Modstep's pianoroll/step sequencer hybrid. It's hard as hell to get into but I honestly can't use most other piano roll at this point.

    This

    Modstep is easily the best piano roll on iOS, much better than Gadget

    Having used gadget, cubasis, Auria pro, infinite looper, auxy and Krft I have to agree. Sad part is most will scoff that it isn't.

    Their loss but yea, Modstep definitely doesn't get the recognition it deserves for it's piano roll. Sure, there is a learning curve that's probably steeper than most but the pay off is more than worth it

    To. Be honest the only thing it really needs at this point is an unlimited step undo and redo.
    At that point I'd even use it to sequence ableton permanently. That and manual step input ala ableton with a hardware midi controller.

  • @syrupcore said:
    Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

    For me it's the note editing that sets it apart. Copying and pasting, both within the same pattern or between them is so fast and smooth. Same goes for transposing

    Those 2 buttons are the key for me. I recommend experimenting with the edit and tranpose functions to get a feel for it

  • edited June 2017

    @jn2002dk said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

    For me it's the note editing that sets it apart. Copying and pasting, both within the same pattern or between them is so fast and smooth. Same goes for transposing

    Those 2 buttons are the key for me. I recommend experimenting with the edit and tranpose functions to get a feel for it

    exactly what i was about to mention. the transpose respects the global key. so lets say you draw a rhythmic sequence in 1 bar. you can duplicate that bar 3 more times using the copy tool in the edit menu. and then transpose each bar up or down as much as you want. instant melody while keeping the rhythm you programmed. its fantastic for quickly drawing basslines and even complex melodies.

    made a quick video showing this:-

  • If modstep would just make zooming easier it would be much better. I hate having to use the scroll bars.

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

    For me it's the note editing that sets it apart. Copying and pasting, both within the same pattern or between them is so fast and smooth. Same goes for transposing

    Those 2 buttons are the key for me. I recommend experimenting with the edit and tranpose functions to get a feel for it

    exactly what i was about to mention. the transpose respects the global key. so lets say you draw a rhythmic sequence in 1 bar. you can duplicate that bar 3 more times using the copy tool in the edit menu. and then transpose each bar up or down as much as you want. instant melody while keeping the rhythm you programmed. its fantastic for quickly drawing basslines and even complex melodies.

    made a quick video showing this:-

    Very nice video that show exactly what i love about it :)

  • edited June 2017

    @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

    For me it's the note editing that sets it apart. Copying and pasting, both within the same pattern or between them is so fast and smooth. Same goes for transposing

    Those 2 buttons are the key for me. I recommend experimenting with the edit and tranpose functions to get a feel for it

    exactly what i was about to mention. the transpose respects the global key. so lets say you draw a rhythmic sequence in 1 bar. you can duplicate that bar 3 more times using the copy tool in the edit menu. and then transpose each bar up or down as much as you want. instant melody while keeping the rhythm you programmed. its fantastic for quickly drawing basslines and even complex melodies.

    made a quick video showing this:-

    Very nice video that show exactly what i love about it :)

    i'll probably shoot a video showing how to use the step sequencer along with copy and transpose to make interesting rhythmic melodies when i can :)

  • edited June 2017

    I think KRFT has the best way to scroll through an entire sequence in the piano roll hands down. It's really nice to be able to see that small preview/scroll bar of the midi notes and then with a quick tap jump to wherever you need to be.
    Cannot be understated how useful that is

  • @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @gonekrazy3000 said:

    @jn2002dk said:

    @syrupcore said:
    Would like to know what it is about the modstep piano roll folks who love it, love so much about it. I like the note folding a lot but the actual interactions with notes leaves me wanting. Learn me please!

    For me it's the note editing that sets it apart. Copying and pasting, both within the same pattern or between them is so fast and smooth. Same goes for transposing

    Those 2 buttons are the key for me. I recommend experimenting with the edit and tranpose functions to get a feel for it

    exactly what i was about to mention. the transpose respects the global key. so lets say you draw a rhythmic sequence in 1 bar. you can duplicate that bar 3 more times using the copy tool in the edit menu. and then transpose each bar up or down as much as you want. instant melody while keeping the rhythm you programmed. its fantastic for quickly drawing basslines and even complex melodies.

    made a quick video showing this:-

    Very nice video that show exactly what i love about it :)

    i'll probably shoot a video showing how to use the step sequencer along with copy and transpose to make interesting rhythmic melodies when i can :)

    Would very much like to see that.

  • @gonekrazy3000 Great tip. I was not aware of that. Thx

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