Wotja goes subscription

[Deleted User]

@oldlibmike said:

I also see many developers come out with cool synths or software that then languishes and never updates. This is also a problem - there is no real incentive for devs to continue updating/upgrading old software under the app model.

I think it depends on how good their apps are. Devs like Virsyn do well because their synths are high quality, well supported, and at a great price. Most of us on here will buy their apps instantly, as we know we'll get an amazing synth that we'll be able to use for years to come.

Regarding updates - I've been building websites for the last 20 odd years, and one of the biggest headaches was keeping client sites working with the latest coding/database/server/device compatibility etc. etc. that was quick and cost effective for them. It's taken me years, but I've developed a system that (so far) has solved this problem - unlike my competitors sites that break every time a browser is updated. I'm not an app coder, but I'm sure there must be a way to build a solid framework that can be updated without rebuilding everything from scratch.

I think Intermorphic are making a mistake in dropping support for the current versions of Noatikl and Mixtikl (can never remember the names, they'd get more sales if they used pronounceable words). It takes years to build trust and loyalty in a brand, but let your customers down too many times and all that hard work goes right down the drain.

skiphunt

Apart from the irritation and disappointment, etc... from a purely PR/marketing standpoint, I think intermorphic could simply do one thing that would save face and position them much better than their current approach.

They could say their current business model is not sustainable. That from
this point on they will concentrate all new feature development on Wotja. And to get on board with future development, users are invited to try the software for free and if the functionality fits, pick a subscription model that makes the most sense.

But, for their existing user base, they commit to maintaining functionality of current versions of Noatikl, Mixtikl.

Any new functionality would go strictly to Wotja.

This would save face with existing customer base, and leave the possibility of potential migration to the Wotja subscription model.

If the Wotja subscription model doesn't pan out, they could always backtrack and release new full-grade versions of Noatikl and Mixtikl. They could also continue selling full versions of Noatikl and Mixtikl with the promise of future iOS functionality only.

jwmmakerofmusic

@InfoCheck said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@audiblevideo said:

ESSENTIALS ($4.99) – Play Time: Up to 1 hour; Save/Export: All Cells in Column 1
PRO ($14.99) – Play Time: Up to 8 hr 53 mins; Save/Export: All Cells in all Columns; MIDI Out/In: Multi-channel

FOR 6 MONTHS OF USE
Cost per month $2.50

NOT BAD!!

ANYWAYS...

@skiphunt I think what Animal's intentions were was to try and cool us down and to get to the bottom of things via investigating, to offer all of us a sense of closure. What he's uncovered has actually given me a better understanding of Tim and Eric, er, Tim and Pete. Tim and Pete are a couple of bumbling idiots businesswise, and no they do NOT have an Awesome Show. There's no doubt the two are ingenious enough to build a deep generative music environment, so this is not what makes them stupid.

What makes them stupid is they sit and wonder why their sales aren't as high as for other apps. They try to ascribe the "rational explanation" to other things and try to solve them by reaming the existing customer base out the arse. Well, newsflash. Here's what the situation truly is - as much as we love the Ambient and Generative music genres and love tinkering around with that type of music, those genres are simply unpopular!

Why has Auria Pro sold so well? It's a full production environment (and the first to offer live multitrack recording). Why has AudioBus done so well? It's the virtual patchbay! Why has Gadget sold so well despite the steep price tag (and by steep, I'm including all IAPs which were worth it!)? Because it's easy to produce virtually all Electronic Music genres with great ease using it alone.

Noatikl and Mixtikl are not easy apps to use, because they sacrifice ease of use for depth and complexity. While we here love depth and complexity, I assume not all iOS musicians want to bother with those two things. This, combined with the fact that Generative music and Ambient music are unpopular, and you got the perfect storm for app sales not doing so well despite how great Noatikl and Mixtikl are.

But no. Of COURSE that can't be it. No, it's some conspiracy within Apple or whatever, and more money must be made somehow. Well, we'll see how Intermorphic will eventually fall to the wayside and rot because of how naive Tim and Pete are on the business end of things by discontinuing two incredible long-standing apps that have been around for years in favour of a pathetic cash grab attempt.

@jwmmakerofmusic I agree you make valid points but concluding Intermorphic should change their focus to something other than generative/ambient music doesn't make sense to me. To be more effective, I think they need to add design/GUI resources to their development cycle so they can create a more engaging app as without this even if they focused on more popular music app creation categories they'd still be unable to compete against even stiffer competition.

I never suggested Tim and Pete should switch their focus to something other than Generative/Ambient music. Far from it. What I said, in summary, is Ambient/Generative music are very niche genres that don't make much of a cash return (not that I'd want it to), and that using a subscription paywall while discontinuing long-standing products is a dick move. I suppose I am repeating myself once again, but I just wanted to make it clear what I was saying, not what you thought I was saying.

rumorazzi

I tend to agree, obviously they are free to choose the methods they prefer, but I don't think they'll increase their sales with a subscription model.
It's better a premium price instead.
Inmho

Igneous1

Well, I went for the 'Pro' subscription (but immediately cancelled the subscription afterwards).

So, it will have cost me £9.49 for six months use. I'm not sure how I feel about this all, but I thought a tenner was not unreasonable to explore all the options of the 'Pro' version for six months. I plan to use it in a generative ambient iOS album project, so the constrained time period will hopefully concentrate my mind to get some useful material out of it.

BiancaNeve

Well they now have a pretty premium price semi subscription model as well.

25 bucks gets you wotja 2017. Which won't be updated after 2017

I just noticed that it also has a VERY LONG EULA buried in the AppStore description

Igneous1

Yes you're right, I was under the impression that there was to be a 'unlimited' version that you could buy. It turns out that they've effectively made it a 'semi- subscription' option (and more pricey than 12 months of the pro subscription)

BiancaNeve

@Igneous1 do you have an iPad 2 or 3 to test it on? It claims to run on 9.3 soooooo since they and iPad mini 1 are capped at 9.3 if it worked it would work forever (well till the hardware died).

jwmmakerofmusic

@Igneous1 said:
Yes you're right, I was under the impression that there was to be a 'unlimited' version that you could buy. It turns out that they've effectively made it a 'semi- subscription' option (and more pricey than 12 months of the pro subscription)

"Okay, so you hate the subscription option and want to pay a flat fee? No problem! You can have it for $25. That's 12 month's worth of subscription fee plus an extra $5 because we need to charge you extra for not going with our ingenious subscription model. Ca-ching!"

Igneous1

@BiancaNeve said:
@Igneous1 do you have an iPad 2 or 3 to test it on? It claims to run on 9.3 soooooo since they and iPad mini 1 are capped at 9.3 if it worked it would work forever (well till the hardware died).

I'm afraid not, I've only got an Air 2, sorry.

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

"Okay, so you hate the subscription option and want to pay a flat fee? No problem! You can have it for $25. That's 12 month's worth of subscription fee plus an extra $5 because we need to charge you extra for not going with our ingenious subscription model. Ca-ching!"

As I said, it's a strange decision. However, I still want to explore this new Wotja thing and hope to get some material from it. A one off price of a tenner isn't a great deal of wonga in the scheme of things, I've spent a lot more on Apps that I'II never use...I don't think 'ca-ching' comes into it really (as has been said), they aren't exactly mainstream.

cian

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Igneous1 said:
Yes you're right, I was under the impression that there was to be a 'unlimited' version that you could buy. It turns out that they've effectively made it a 'semi- subscription' option (and more pricey than 12 months of the pro subscription)

"Okay, so you hate the subscription option and want to pay a flat fee? No problem! You can have it for $25. That's 12 month's worth of subscription fee plus an extra $5 because we need to charge you extra for not going with our ingenious subscription model. Ca-ching!"

You pay a $5 premium for being able to keep the app at the end of a year.

I would never buy this app as I find doing generative stuff in code far more intuitive, but it does look a lot easier to use than older versions. I bought a version of it in a sale years ago and found it baffling. This new version at least makes a kind of sense.

skiphunt

I downloaded Wotja just to see if I might even like it better or if the UI made any more sense. I thought it was even more confusing than Mixtikl and deleted it.

Then, I went to intermorphic's twitter page to suggest maybe they at least respect long-time paying customers by at minimum committing to keep their current full-grade versions functioning with iOS updates if they break.

Guess what? They've completely blocked me from even communicating with them. Imagine that! Paying customer who paid full price for Mixtikl 5 times for each time they released a new version with minor tweaks and bug fixes, and they block you from contacting them.

Live and learn I guess, but there's no way these clowns are going to get another penny from me. They give devs a bad name.

jwmmakerofmusic

@cian said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Igneous1 said:
Yes you're right, I was under the impression that there was to be a 'unlimited' version that you could buy. It turns out that they've effectively made it a 'semi- subscription' option (and more pricey than 12 months of the pro subscription)

"Okay, so you hate the subscription option and want to pay a flat fee? No problem! You can have it for $25. That's 12 month's worth of subscription fee plus an extra $5 because we need to charge you extra for not going with our ingenious subscription model. Ca-ching!"

You pay a $5 premium for being able to keep the app at the end of a year.

I would never buy this app as I find doing generative stuff in code far more intuitive, but it does look a lot easier to use than older versions. I bought a version of it in a sale years ago and found it baffling. This new version at least makes a kind of sense.

If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

[Deleted User]

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

There was a free app called CsoundPad, still have it my app library, but just noticed that it has vanished from the App Store

[Deleted User]

@yug said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

There was a free app called CsoundPad, still have it my app library, but just noticed that it has vanished from the App Store

The app RunloopSound uses Csound and works plus has import/export options for your sounds and patches.

[Deleted User]

@InfoCheck said:
The app RunloopSound uses Csound and works plus has import/export options for your sounds and patches.

Thanks, I'll check it. I'm not really into Csound but maybe it's what I need

I hope one day Pythonista gains CoreMidi support... I can make it control my desktop machine via an OSC-to-MIDI bridge but what's the point of using an iPad if you need to stay close to your computer? Maybe some day I'll find time to develop my own OSC to MIDI converter for iOS

jwmmakerofmusic

@InfoCheck said:

@yug said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

There was a free app called CsoundPad, still have it my app library, but just noticed that it has vanished from the App Store

The app RunloopSound uses Csound and works plus has import/export options for your sounds and patches.

This looks like a superb app! Got it and will be having fun with it. Thanks.

Igneous1

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@InfoCheck said:

@yug said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

There was a free app called CsoundPad, still have it my app library, but just noticed that it has vanished from the App Store

The app RunloopSound uses Csound and works plus has import/export options for your sounds and patches.

This looks like a superb app! Got it and will be having fun with it. Thanks.

You may find this interesting - The Composers Desktop Project software (Trevor Wishart et al)

http://www.unstablesound.net/cdp.html

Personally (in the past) I couldn't get anything decent sounding out of C sound - but that could well have been my fault.

cian

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@cian said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Igneous1 said:
Yes you're right, I was under the impression that there was to be a 'unlimited' version that you could buy. It turns out that they've effectively made it a 'semi- subscription' option (and more pricey than 12 months of the pro subscription)

"Okay, so you hate the subscription option and want to pay a flat fee? No problem! You can have it for $25. That's 12 month's worth of subscription fee plus an extra $5 because we need to charge you extra for not going with our ingenious subscription model. Ca-ching!"

You pay a $5 premium for being able to keep the app at the end of a year.

I would never buy this app as I find doing generative stuff in code far more intuitive, but it does look a lot easier to use than older versions. I bought a version of it in a sale years ago and found it baffling. This new version at least makes a kind of sense.

If only I could program C-Sound on the iPad or figure out a way to create something generative in Python. (Closest I can get currently in Python is compiling lists and having the program randomly select notes for me to mark down in whatever sequencer I have open at that moment), problem solved. Guess I'm relegated to the PC for C-Sound, which kinda sucks.

While this doesn't help with your iPad issue, check out SuperCollider. It's algorithmic music abilities (particularly the pattern stuff) are second to none. And it's a better language than CSound which helps (I have a love hate thing with CSound).