Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Serious question: Why is MIDI so wanky for so many apps in iOS?

By nature of the platform, we are always working around issues in iOS, whether they are memory, processor, storage or… MIDI goddamnit!

WTF?

First, yes, I realize that MIDI on iOS is pretty amazing, and often works well. But I can't tell you how many times I have issues with getting apps to connect via MIDI. Perhaps it is user error, but I have plenty of examples.

Sometimes, I can get iGuitar to control Alchemy. Other times they can't see each other when other MIDI applications can see them. R/ipadmusic has a thread about MIDI problems on imini.

Is there something wrong with core MIDI? Or, is it just difficult to code? Or, is a bug a bug, and the is incidence of MIDI problems statistically normal?

Finally, if it is user error, how do we make this stuff easier to use? I go pretty deep into software, and it drives me crazy when I can't figure this stuff out.

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Comments

  • edited July 2014

    Because while Apple has provided the technology for it they did not show developers how to implement it in a standardised way. Having MIDI preferences in every single app instead of in one central place means users can set up connections in more than one place which leads to misconfiguration.

  • edited July 2014

    Generally speaking at least for me, MIDI (and chaining app audio together with audiobus) is a breeze on iOS compared to some of the issues I've had with getting DAW's and VSTi's to play nice together on a PC. It used to seem like an endless maze of navigating sub-menus, installing weird drivers and other 3rd party VSTs, and setting adjustments.

  • So, @sebastian, are you basically saying that Apple's MIDI SDK is weak... leaving developers to implement in their own fashion?

    Audiobus cannot address this issue, is that correct? I wonder if midiflow or some other intermediary app could help.

    Or is could someone develop something akin to sharekit that developers could implement for midi?

  • edited July 2014

    @johnfromberkeley said:

    So, @sebastian, are you basically saying that Apple's MIDI SDK is weak... leaving developers to implement in their own fashion?

    Audiobus cannot address this issue, is that correct? I wonder if midiflow or some other intermediary app could help.

    Or is could someone develop something akin to sharekit that developers could implement for midi?

    No, I'm not saying that CoreMIDI is 'weak' or bad. It's not a technical issue. It's a diplomatic issue.

    Everybody would have to agree to let a third party app handle all of the MIDI routing and simply either not offer any MIDI settings menu in their apps or disable it when connected to such an app.

    Audiobus could do this but Apple kind of already solved this issue a little with their IAA implementation. Just not enough. There are still ways to misconfigure sync and IAA does not even work for apps that are only MIDI controllers and have no Audio engine of their own. It's messy and since none of the other platforms (Windows Phone, Android) have a working feasible market for music app developers there's not much pressure on Apple to invest a lot of manpower into improving the underlying framework.

    Don't get me wrong: what Apple's audio guys have been doing so far on iOS is simply above and beyond what any of the other companies are doing and without them we wouldn't be talking here. I'm thankful for what Apple has done in the past.

    But...

    We're in a bit of a pickle right now. If third party developers like us come up with a solution that solves a problem everybody is having (like live audio routing) there is absolutely nothing that's stopping Apple from just finding out at what they like about it most and then copy... err... implementing the good bits on their own. All third party developers can do is to be much faster than Apple to hope Apple buys them up later on or doesn't care enough about that particular niche to interfere with it. And no, patents are not an option.

    Which brings me back to the current state of MIDI on iOS.
    Anyone looking to fix MIDI routing right now would have to repeat what we've been doing with Audiobus. Get everybody on board. Come up with an SDK. Make a central app where all the routing is done. Maintain it. Keep customers informed. Make sure that third party developers actually see some positive return on their investment.

    Sounds like Audiobus, doesn't it?
    Here's the problem with it: there is absolutely no money to be made with it. It's not worth it. All these specialized apps like MIDI flow and MIDI bridge and so on... they're all trying to solve a diplomatic problem with technology. Adding another layer of configuration on top of already existing ones is not going to solve anything. The real solution would be to have one place to set up MIDI and that's it. But to make this feasible we would have to put a price tag on it, because it's a lot of work. And none of the apps I've mentioned before are really selling well enough to pay for that kind of work.

    MIDI routing is only interesting for a tiny fraction of the already small market of iOS musicians. It's very hard to convince third party developers to implement yet another third party solution to a (from their perspective) minor problem which does not affect their bottom line at all. And even if such a solution existed, it might only be there for a short amount of time until Apple realises that they should be the ones solving it (which ironically, is what I think they should be doing).
    Apple coming up with a system level solution, would cause even more trouble for the third party developer who came up with the initial solution for MIDI routing (and maybe sync). Which would eat even more into the potential profits that could be made with such an app that solves this half baked MIDI mess that we're living in.

    We (Audiobus) are still going to try to fix some of the problems (mainly sync) but we're really waiting for Apple to show us what their idea of handling MIDI controllers as IAA nodes is. If Apple doesn't fix it in iOS 9, then we're going to have to think about what we can do but we're not too thrilled about it because coming up with a maintainable SDK for hundreds of apps with thousands of developers is very hard work and as mentioned before the market is tiny so it's hard to earn enough money with it to maintain it for years and years.

    I hope that made sense.

  • Comprehensive. I hope apple do sort this!

  • Everything Sebastian said notwithstanding, there are definitely plenty of apps that handle MIDI well, and plenty of others that handle it poorly. Some developers are obviously doing something right.

  • @Zymos said:

    Everything Sebastian said notwithstanding, there are definitely plenty of apps that handle MIDI well, and plenty of others that handle it poorly. Some developers are obviously doing something right.

    I absolutely agree. But even if developers are doing this right and their implementation is sound that doesn't mean that everything just works. Some apps for example are automatically listening to every MIDI port available. Some apps are automatically sending to every port available. While this sounds reasonable to reduce setup hassle for users it means that in this exact scenario apps can receive midi notes twice. Now imagine some apps NOT doing it this way, and some apps doing it this way and what you end up with is a bunch of frustrated developers trying to do things right and a bunch of frustrated users not knowing what to configure where and how.

  • dashed hopes and sad face aside, thanks for sharing what you've been thinking about @sebastian.

  • @johnfromberkeley said:

    So, @sebastian, are you basically saying that Apple's MIDI SDK is weak... leaving developers to implement in their own fashion?

    @sebastian said:

    No, I'm not saying that CoreMIDI is 'weak' or bad. It's not a technical issue. It's a diplomatic issue.

    Maybe I'm unclear on the definitions, or perhaps I'm getting lost in semantics but I think what John is saying is pretty spot on and you (Sebastian) are selling some of your own work short. CoreMIDI as a technology layer is fine. The SDK for it (the how/when/why/interfaces...) could use your help. There's no doubt that a part of AB's adoption success stems from a great SDK which includes comprehensive and thoughtful documentation and implementation examples.

  • @sebastian I take it (naming kerffufle aside) that Audeonic's (same people who did MidiBridge) midibus library is not a/the solution? It seems several developers of recent and successful apps have implemented it, though some - not to single them out - don't have all the features I'm looking for coded.

  • edited July 2014

    I think an additional issue that Sebastian hints at is that app music users often have the expectation that apps should be relatively cheap in iOS versus on a PC so this further marginalizes the ability for developers to implement a solution since for many developers, their interest in creating apps is a side project or a numbers game where as Sebastian has pointed out, most of the people who buy the apps don't care about midi and I'd add that they probably don't even know what it is either.

    If you look at the App Store, you can clearly see that games are Apples bread and butter. There are very few music apps that are ever featured and rarely is midi a part of this discussion.

    If Apple can just yank the rug out from under developers who do come up with a solution there's even less incentive to address the issue.

    If iOS musicians with an interest in midi really want to develop a midi solution, they might need to address it as a community and be prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

    In the meantime, apps like MidiBridge and MidiBus try to cobble together the hodgepodge of midi implementations in iOS. To use these apps isn't always a straight forward iOS is user friendly experience either.

  • @Paulinko said:

    If iOS musicians with an interest in midi really want to develop a midi solution, they might need to address it as a community and be prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

    That's exactly it. I think it's possible to create a solution for this and honestly I'd love to be part of it somehow but I think the community has to be involved. Maintaining such a project (with support for users and developers) is not a simple task. Especially since it would have to be maintained over multiple years (at least).

    I'm thinking of something like a crowd funded version of the MMA (the group that makes sure that the MIDI standard isn't diluted), but just for mobile music (doesn't have to be iOS only).

  • Sebastian has it right -- there are some apps with truly broken MIDI implementations, but the problem is primarily a "diplomatic issue." As an analogy, consider driving; some countries drive on the left, others on the right. Both systems work. But if you mix the two, bad stuff happens.

    Some apps connect to any port, but constrain who they listen to. Others listen to any port, but constrain who they send to. Some apps forget all MIDI configuration every time they start up (cough, Animoog, I'm looking at you). Apple made no indication of which way they wanted developers to go. Both systems work, but...

    "Fixing" iOS MIDI involves a large number of developers making fundamental changes in the way their code works (for essentially zero financial incentive). I like MIDIbus in theory, but for it to really work, everyone has to switch over, and I don't think that will happen.

    Audiobus succeeded because there were "no roads to drive on." M&S laid out a batch of rules that made sense, and everyone agreed to drive the right way. The SDK made using Audiobus a no-brainer. I'm holding off on direct support of IAA, because it looks to me like there are no "rules of the road" there, and I much prefer driving in places where there are rules.

  • How much would it cost to get a mobile midi standard setup and implemented?
    I'm all for supporting such a group but how would the initial investments from induviduals be worked out?

  • @Paulinko said:

    In the meantime, apps like MidiBridge and MidiBus try to cobble together the hodgepodge of midi implementations in iOS. To use these apps isn't always a straight forward iOS is user friendly experience either.

    Something more about this:

    Since the number of users who understand MIDI is so small and the number of apps that work perfectly together isn't that great either the market for it cannot grow. The above mentioned apps don't make it easier either - they add another layer of complexity for musicians who want to 'fix' certain app's MIDI implementation.

    Imagine if there was a clear and simple way to for MIDI routing to work. We'd be seeing a completely new category of apps. Just like Audiobus paved the way for audio effects apps, a working and easy to understand solution for MIDI routing would pave the way for standalone MIDI filters. Apps that automatically transpose, harmonize, split... etc.

    I've been thinking about how to do this for more than a year now and the reason why I'm talking about this in public is because I feel like this is something that has to have the support of the community from the beginning on, otherwise it'll fail. With Audiobus (like Patrick mentioned above) we didn't have to overcome an existing hodgepodge of audio routing implementations, which made it easier. With MIDI we're going to have to figure out a way how to do it nicely and convince everybody to join in even though they already have something that sort of works (but not quite).

  • edited July 2014

    @Nu2moro said:

    How much would it cost to get a mobile midi standard setup and implemented?
    I'm all for supporting such a group but how would the initial investments from induviduals be worked out?

    Sorry but here's the usual answer: it depends.

    We could make MIDI routing an In-app purchase in Audiobus but that would limit the amount of users who have access to it and the market size quite significantly.

    I'd rather make MIDI routing a free addition to the Audiobus app. That way it would partially drive sales of Audiobus, which would pay for continued support and it would instantaneously create a market for new standalone MIDI filter apps as mentioned above.

    But for that we'd need to see that the community really wants this to happen, which would require not just a certain amount of money (I'd say at least a decently sized five figure amount because it'll be months of work + whatever the crowdfunding platform takes) but also a certain amount of users. The reason for that would be to indicate to third party developers that there actually is demand for a seamless MIDI implementation and standalone MIDI apps.

    And then there's still the problem of Apple not really indicating where they want to go with IAA MIDI (if they even have plans for it). But I think with robust design of the protocol this can be solved. We've ported Audiobus to IAA, we probably can do the same thing with MIDI.

  • @sebastian, Patrick, et al, what can we - the community, or at least part of it - do to help support and move this forward?

  • The biggest problem is that every few months, this conversation comes up, and everyone comments on it, and no one actually starts "DOing" something about it. The way I see it, unless someone actually starts "something", three months from now, we'll have another post about why is Midi so wonky in iOS, and we'll have the same comments, and still nothing will happen...and three months after that, the same thing will happen again, and again, and again.........

    Maybe MidiBus isn't the answer, and maybe there are hard feelings about the actual name of it, but for NOW, for those of us who understand Midi, it works, and is available right now to improve our lives. It is a free and available SDK that works great and exists now!

    So, unless someone speaks up and says that they are actively working on something and have an actual goal date on when it is going to work, developers need to start making the best of what they have now, which in my opinion, is MidiBus...

    ...or we can all just twiddle our thumbs and "Hope" that Apple steps up with a solution

    Otherwise, all of this is just talk that nothing beneficial will come from......and we can revisit this conversation again in three months. :-)

  • @MoonWolf said:

    @sebastian, Patrick, et al, what can we - the community, or at least part of it - do to help support and move this forward?

    I really, truly wish I could help.....Unfortunately, I can't program myself out of a wet paper bag to save my life.......I'm just good at complaining.....which isn't much good at all..... :-(

  • edited July 2014

    Hm, apple is/was talking to MMA to get a standart for Midi over bluetooth
    Who knows what else they have in the bag.
    Audio/Midi setup Assistent on ios?
    We, as musicians, are apples oldest customers, and they showed as with iaa that they haven't forgot us.
    Meh

  • @lala said:

    Hm, apple is/was talking to MMA to get a standart for Midi over bluetooth
    How knows what else they have in the bag.
    Meh

    ...Yeah! Let's wait and see what iOS 9 or iOS 10 will bring!!!!! Yay!!!!.............. :-(

  • Sorry for the negativity......this topic reminds me of my government..... :-(

  • @Audiojunkie said:

    Sorry for the negativity......this topic reminds me of my government..... :-(

    Ouch.

    But yeah, I get it. I feel the same way but we've been so busy in the last year with the move to IAA that we simply didn't have any resources to tackle this and improve the situation. Also I've always thought that we might be able to do it in our own but only in the last few weeks it dawned on me that there simply is no way to do this without the backing of the community.

    I wouldn't be sharing all these business insights with the public if I thought there was a way to tackle this on our own without the 'risk' of other developers just running with the idea while we're busy with other stuff cough IAA transition cough.

    Chin up buddy, this problem is going to be solved eventually. It's really just a matter of when and who does it. As mentioned above I'd like to be involved if possible because it's an interesting puzzle to solve. At the same time it's important to not get involved in something that doesn't make sense financially because it's not backed by enough users and developers for it to create a market.

  • @lala said:

    Hm, apple is/was talking to MMA to get a standart for Midi over bluetooth
    Who knows what else they have in the bag.
    Audio/Midi setup Assistent on ios?
    Meh

    For that to happen Apple would have to prioritise pro-audio on iOS more than they are doing right now. It would have to be a separate app or some sort of extension that was accessible in every app that does audio/midi. I doubt that'll happen in the near future (or any time at all). But we can hope.

  • edited July 2014

    I am just thinking loud. Don't want to destroy the vibe, but
    How long would it take to get stuff going?
    A year?
    ios 9 is only a year away and nobody knows what that will bring.
    Ios 9 on an a9 with audio/midi setup?

  • edited July 2014

    Nah, that's a good question. Probably half a year to a year. That's another problem:
    What happens if iOS 9 doesn't solve anything? Do we wait another year? Welcome to the world of making sophisticated apps for iOS. :D

  • @Sebastian said:

    @Audiojunkie said:

    Sorry for the negativity......this topic reminds me of my government..... :-(

    Ouch.

    But yeah, I get it. I feel the same way but we've been so busy in the last year with the move to IAA that we simply didn't have any resources to tackle this and improve the situation. Also I've always thought that we might be able to do it in our own but only in the last few weeks it dawned on me that there simply is no way to do this without the backing of the community.

    I wouldn't be sharing all these business insights with the public if I thought there was a way to tackle this on our own without the 'risk' of other developers just running with the idea while we're busy with other stuff cough IAA transition cough.

    Chin up buddy, this problem is going to be solved eventually. It's really just a matter of when and who does it. As mentioned above I'd like to be involved if possible because it's an interesting puzzle to solve. At the same time it's important to not get involved in something that doesn't make sense financially because it's not backed by enough users and developers for it to create a market.

    Thanks for listening @Sebastian. I know the situation is not your fault, and I don't want to make it sound like it is. You guys have worked your butts off to provide a great app with great support, and it's not your fault that MIDI on iOS sucks. I just get frustrated sometimes, and vent....I'll probably do it again the next time this topic comes up in three months. :-)

  • edited July 2014

    What surprised me is that they are talking to MMA.
    That's a lot of yadda yadda with slow mma if it would be only for the mac line, while they are making their money with ios. Isn't it?
    so they know midi is used on ios and that there is room for improvement.

  • @lala said:

    What surprised me is that they are talking to MMA.
    That's a lot of yadda yadda if it would be only for the mac line, while they are making their money with ios. Isn't it?
    so they know midi is used on ios and that there is room for improvement.

    I think it's safe to assume that BLE Midi is going to arrive on iOS at the same time.

  • That's what I thought, too.

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